how to get flight level trimmed...

One other thing to consider is a slight adjustment with power. slow flight or high AOA can switch controls, power for lift, pitch for speed

randomTOTEN & Revs:

I'll re-examine my joy stick curves/dead zone and see how that plays out.

It took me a long time practicing to be able to do a fill up with confidence...I'll try making the effort to break bad habits and do it right!

Thanks again!

I'll re-examine my joy stick curves/dead zone and see how that plays out.

A large dead zone with no curve could certainly also be causing you grief. Setup in this way will cause control input to jump from zero to linear instantly when you pass the dead zone point, making super fine control impossible. For example a linear curve with a 5% dead zone will cause the Hornet to see your input jump from 0% instantly to 5% the moment you cross 5% stick deflection, with control input below 5% impossible.

A large dead zone with no curve could certainly also be causing you grief. Setup in this way will cause control input to jump from zero to linear instantly when you pass the dead zone point, making super fine control impossible. For example a linear curve with a 5% dead zone will cause the Hornet to see your input jump from 0% instantly to 5% the moment you cross 5% stick deflection, with control input below 5% impossible.

My understanding of a dead zone, is it allows freedom of movement within the dead zone without input. As you pass out of the dead zone your range starts at zero at that point and will increase according to your curve be it linear or %.

You can see this illustrated in the stick control settings.

A large dead zone with no curve could certainly also be causing you grief. Setup in this way will cause control input to jump from zero to linear instantly when you pass the dead zone point, making super fine control impossible. For example a linear curve with a 5% dead zone will cause the Hornet to see your input jump from 0% instantly to 5% the moment you cross 5% stick deflection, with control input below 5% impossible.

While I agree that an excessively large deadzone can cause issues, That's not how deadzone works in DCS. Once you pass the deadzone point the control starts to move linearly from 0%, even if the physical stick is at 10% position. There is no jumping around.

Thats not how deadzone works in DCS. Once you pass the deadzone point the control starts to move from 0%, even if the physical stick is at 10% position.

That is how it works in KA-50 Shkval axis.

You can't have it going at 0.5% speed, as it jumps to 10% effect in the first moment it starts to move.

Why you need to make it overall slower so that speed jump would be much smaller.

It completely throws away the high resolution and big axis that MCG PRO throttle has for the mini-stick, and it is always far more easier to use with a buttons on 4-way hat than it in axis.

With the buttons you can do the quick and tiny adjustments, but you can't do the large one. You can overcome that by using HMS more for big distance changes between units, but you can't track anymore any moving target easily.

There are differences across all the ways how input generates output, depending the systems etc. Even in real aircrafts there is big changes in flight computers inputs when in specific modes, like example look at the Su-27 or Su-25 landings and pilots can throw their stick around with big moves just to generate very small output. But when they are in speed etc, that same movement can't be done as the aircraft will react to those inputs completely different.

And such dynamic input/output is not in the DCS.

That is how it works in KA-50 Shkval axis.

 

You can't have it going at 0.5% speed, as it jumps to 10% effect in the first moment it starts to move.

Why you need to make it overall slower so that speed jump would be much smaller.

 

It completely throws away the high resolution and big axis that MCG PRO throttle has for the mini-stick, and it is always far more easier to use with a buttons on 4-way hat than it in axis.

With the buttons you can do the quick and tiny adjustments, but you can't do the large one. You can overcome that by using HMS more for big distance changes between units, but you can't track anymore any moving target easily.

Thats related to the coding of how the Shkval moves rather then the axis tuning in DCS. That effect doesn't apply to flight controls

Update...

Thank you all!

I see afterall that I do not need trim at all, very subtle taps on the stick does the trick giving the smallest inputs needed.

But without being in A/P [non-designated mode] making these subtle stick movements I find the plane tends not to be as controllable as when I approach in A/P [without any mode designated].

When I let go the stick the plane stops exactly where I am but without A/P I find it tends to drift past when I go stick neutral.

Hope this is understandable.

You shouldn't need to use the AP channels during AAR refueling. It's FCS already makes it one of the most stable combat aircraft in DCS. Compared to something like the L39, MiG21, F-86, A10C, or F5E, this (and the F16C) is one of the easiest aircraft to fly, especially when it comes to Air Refueling.

I would suggest you either practice more formation flying with the Hornet (don't focus on connecting, just holding position using manual flight).. or perhaps spending some more time in a conventionally controlled jet to get the "feel" for close formation flight. It's a skill you need to develop, and it can fade without regular practice. I know I get a little sweaty if it's been weeks since I've tried AAR in a specific aircraft. But the sight picture and motor skills very quickly return.

Go take an F-5E (or Su-25T) and fly off the wingtip of the KC-135 for about 20 minutes... you'll get it. You don't need an Autopilot to do this. Even the sudden turns aren't that big of a deal when you really get comfortable with it.

That's not how deadzone works in DCS. Once you pass the deadzone point the control starts to move linearly from 0%, even if the physical stick is at 10% position. There is no jumping around.

Cool. DCS does a better job of axis tuning than I thought. :)

You shouldn't need to use the AP channels during AAR refueling. It's FCS already makes it one of the most stable combat aircraft in DCS. Compared to something like the L39, MiG21, F-86, A10C, or F5E, this (and the F16C) is one of the easiest aircraft to fly, especially when it comes to Air Refueling.

 

 

I would suggest you either practice more formation flying with the Hornet (don't focus on connecting, just holding position using manual flight).. or perhaps spending some more time in a conventionally controlled jet to get the "feel" for close formation flight. It's a skill you need to develop, and it can fade without regular practice. I know I get a little sweaty if it's been weeks since I've tried AAR in a specific aircraft. But the sight picture and motor skills very quickly return.

 

 

Go take an F-5E (or Su-25T) and fly off the wingtip of the KC-135 for about 20 minutes... you'll get it. You don't need an Autopilot to do this. Even the sudden turns aren't that big of a deal when you really get comfortable with it.

If by AP channels you mean ATTH / HSEL / BALT / RALT, I don't engage these, I just press the AP button on the UFC. For small subtle inputs only, this gives better control. Yes I understand if I practice without AP I would be able to get more comfortable but it would never be as controllable as with AP [with no channels engaged]...so why wouldn't you want to make it easier?

There is no autopilot until you activate at least one of those modes.

There is no autopilot until you activate at least one of those modes.

There is some flight control behavior that is different as described, try pressing only the AP select button without pressing a mode button.

You have to press ON after bringing up the A/P UFC page. This activates a "basic" (not sure the correct terminology) autopilot mode. The left DDI has an ADV-A/P message displayed.

And I would recommend that you not use this mode in AAR. I think it's a crutch that's still not needed. I highly doubt any RL crew would use it (or be allowed to use it), and using any sort of autopilot while in extremely close proximity to a flying fuel tank, especially when you're flying in it's wake just sounds like a really bad idea.

At least try it a couple times with no autopilot assist whatsoever. And no flying by trim. Just your joystick. Maybe a click of roll here and there for the wake, but nothing else should be required.

Remember the FCS provides a great deal of stabilization already, and a limited automatic pitch trim function. This should certainly be possible.

You have to press ON after bringing up the A/P UFC page. This activates a "basic" (not sure the correct terminology) autopilot mode. The left DDI has an ADV-A/P message displayed.

 

 

And I would recommend that you not use this mode in AAR. I think it's a crutch that's still not needed. I highly doubt any RL crew would use it (or be allowed to use it), and using any sort of autopilot while in extremely close proximity to a flying fuel tank, especially when you're flying in it's wake just sounds like a really bad idea.

 

 

At least try it a couple times with no autopilot assist whatsoever. And no flying by trim. Just your joystick. Maybe a click of roll here and there for the wake, but nothing else should be required.

 

 

Remember the FCS provides a great deal of stabilization already, and a limited automatic pitch trim function. This should certainly be possible.

Too bad it was so easy but I hear ya...back to work:book:

Thanks!

edit: btw, I never had to press the on button only the AP select and the mode I wanted...to disengage entirely from the AP system I just had to pull the (Paddle) Switch, [Autopilot/Nosewheel Steering Disengage (Paddle) Switch]