colyoap Posted April 16, 2017 Author Share Posted April 16, 2017 In addition to flight characteristics, you could also look at it from the perspective of what tasks the A-10C will be doing, since that tends to be directly connected to how you will be flying the aircraft (and what tasks you might need to get used to doing while flying). To that extent, the Su-25T has enough similarities to help her get used to the idea of dividing attention between being heads-up to fly and heads-down to watch the feed from the TGP, for example. Another useful option might simply be to get the A-10A or the larger FC3 package and have her start with the A-10A's simpler avionics and flight modelling before transitioning to the A-10C. I had thought of starting her on a fc3 aircraft as i, myself, started in the SU-25T. I know it's less complicated but I think there is extra value in a clickable cockpit, more "hands on" than just keybinds with the added benefit of recognizing certain switches/buttons in new aircraft and understand what they do to a degree (battery, apu, generators,etc. Am I correct in saying the general consensus is stick with the hawg? Do any of the trainer aircraft "feel" like flying a really fast cessna? Lol Callsign: "Milkman" I7-8700k@4.8--Corsair H115i pro--EVGA FTW3 1080ti--GB Aorus Z370--256GB M.2 SSD--16GB ram--Win10--1000wGold Rate PSU--CV1 Rift--TIR5--X55 HOTAS--TM pedals--TM MFDs--Custom UFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMEDooley Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 So I would agree that the Hawk is an excellent choice if you want to go that route. It'll give her some good easy training without a ton of complexity. Also the F-5 would be a good choice as well. But mind you the learning curve on navigation and landing is high at least for me it is. But it will make the A-10 feel like small potatoes with all of its bells and whistles lol. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVince Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 If that's not the case I'd just write up a few modified checklists that cut out all of the "fun" switches. But seeing as the sale is going on I might as well get something! I was slightly leaning towards the l-39 but now I don't know if the metric guages would get confusing? In the L-39, speed is indicated in knots and altitude is indicated in feets. Kind regards, Vince PC: i5-7300HQ@2,5GHz | nVidia GTX 1050 Ti | 8Gb RAM | 256GB SSD for Windows+DCS | Windows10 Modules: Mirage2000C | AV-8B N/A | MiG-21Bis | F-5E | L-39 | Gazelle | FC3 Combined Arms | Supercarrier NTTR | Persian Gulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) So if training in western avionics is the focus, either go A-10C directly or try the Hawk, as it has already EFM and the capability to train weapons employment, although it is still in beta. :imho: Oh yes, with those placeholder rockets, broken gunsight that doesn't reflect the real thing, broken sidewinder sound, broken bombs release logic, gun that keeps firing even when you release trigger (have they finally added a sound?), and a "couple" other bugs, Hawk is the perfect weapons trainer indeed. Shouldn't developers and their affiliates stay away from such threads anyway? To the OP: unless you want to play shared cockpit, just buy her A-10C, first learn her to fly the thing, then set her up the basic weapons systems and off you go. Edited April 16, 2017 by some1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Oh yes, with those placeholder rockets, broken gunsight that doesn't reflect the real thing, broken sidewinder sound, broken bombs release logic, gun that keeps firing even when you release trigger (have they finally added a sound?), and a "couple" other bugs, Hawk is the perfect weapons trainer indeed. Unless you want to play shared cockpit, just buy her A-10C, first learn her to fly the thing, then set her up the basic weapons systems and off you go. As I said, A-10 is a good choice, unless you need dual Cockpit and western avionics. BTW, yes the gunsight is fixed (actually it wasn't buggy, it was the placeholder pod. Since the Aden Gun pod is modeled it works). Sidewinder rockets work since about a year, as well. ...and the Sidewinder tone is getting fixed. May I ask, when you last flew the Hawk? I have to look into the bombs a bit more, but I remember they already worked in 1.5. something, yet there is a bug with EDs Mk-82 visuals, but that is just visual. In contrast to the C-101 in its Beta state, you CAN at least fly EFM, use some weapons, train BFM with Sidewinders and it is a nice and easy to handle plane. Keep in mind, both Aviojet and VEAO work very hard on getting there modules perfect and out the door... :dunno: Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I had thought of starting her on a fc3 aircraft as i, myself, started in the SU-25T. I know it's less complicated but I think there is extra value in a clickable cockpit, more "hands on" than just keybinds with the added benefit of recognizing certain switches/buttons in new aircraft and understand what they do to a degree (battery, apu, generators,etc. Am I correct in saying the general consensus is stick with the hawg? Do any of the trainer aircraft "feel" like flying a really fast cessna? Lol If you can manage to make her feel "not overwhelmed" with the startup and detailed systems, yes. IMHO, if you want to focus on flying, navigation, basic maneuvering, I would reconsider a trainer, as the back seat option in particular, just to see what's going on, is pretty valuable. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redglyph Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 In the L-39, speed is indicated in knots and altitude is indicated in feets. No, it's indicated in km/h and meters (flight manual, pg 131 and 133). Or was it different before? System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilbur81 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Hey all im wondering if anyone has any input for which trainer I should get with the Easter discount. My wife has an interest in taking part in my obsession but she has virtually no flying experience other than what I've talked about during chores. Eventually she'll be on the hawg but I'd like to train her on flight fundamentals in a less complicated aircraft. I'm not necessarily looking for the "best" aircraft but rather the best to teach in that mimics the a-10's characteristics to a point. Thanks for any input! How about the A-10A? This is a simulation on a PC. She can 'crash' the thing 100000 times without consequences and fly it however she wants. No need for a trainer in a video game. :-) i7 8700K @ Stock - Win10 64 - 32 RAM - RTX 3080 12gb OC - 55 inch 4k Display Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterVince Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 No, it's indicated in km/h and meters (flight manual, pg 131 and 133). Or was it different before? I just flew it and it was indicated in knots and feets. Kind regards, Vince PC: i5-7300HQ@2,5GHz | nVidia GTX 1050 Ti | 8Gb RAM | 256GB SSD for Windows+DCS | Windows10 Modules: Mirage2000C | AV-8B N/A | MiG-21Bis | F-5E | L-39 | Gazelle | FC3 Combined Arms | Supercarrier NTTR | Persian Gulf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenta Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 My girlfriend started with the MiG-21. Didn't manage to land it though :D Failure is the mother of all success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FOXFIRE TWOONE Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I have the Viggen and when I fine the need to quickly know speed or alt I bring up the ( info bar ), its IAS and Feet. If that's the same in other a/c it could help in your decision, because it's always on display if desired. Intel core I9 10900K 3.7 ghz Asrock Z490 Extreme4 G-SKill Ripjaws V 32GB Cooler Master 120m GTX 980 Superclocked Corsair AX850w psu Samsung 1 T M.2 2 X 850 ssd's Sony 48 in HD TV Trackir 5 Hotas Warthog F/A-18C Hornet Grip Logitech Pro Peddles Windows 10 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbik Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Do not bother with trainer if you cannot use the second seat capabilities, if you have only one PC then go for a combat aircraft. It boils down to if you want to go down with Metric system or Imperial first. I would start in air or on runway and would not bother with startup until she will get hang of the controls in air. If you want to go western style go with either F-15, A-10A/C or F-5. If you want to go the eastern style start with Su-25 or Mig-29. Although DCS is very realistic, it is still a game which should be source of fun, let her try to find the fun in it by herself as much as possible. That is what i would try to achieve if I would be in the same situation. :) Do, or do not, there is no try. -------------------------------------------------------- Sapphire Nitro+ Rx Vega 64, i7 4790K ... etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
some1 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) BTW, yes the gunsight is fixed (actually it wasn't buggy, it was the placeholder pod. Since the Aden Gun pod is modeled it works). Sidewinder rockets work since about a year, as well. ...and the Sidewinder tone is getting fixed. I have to look into the bombs a bit more, but I remember they already worked in 1.5. something, yet there is a bug with EDs Mk-82 visuals, but that is just visual. May I ask, when you last flew the Hawk? About a month or two ago. Tried to shoot something down with the help of AWACS but the UHF radio is still broken for half a year or more: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178026 And the bombs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183277 And the sidewinder sounds: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181879 And the currently fantasy gunsight: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=134650 We still have the ugly placeholder LAU launchers instead of the correct SNEB ones, gun keeps firing when you release the trigger, there's no option to hang single Mk-82 bombs, only TERs, gunsight is a decoration that doesn't show the correct aiming point.... I could go on... Keep in mind, both Aviojet and VEAO work very hard on getting there modules perfect and out the door... :dunno: At least that's what they've been saying for the last 2 years or so. Sure it must be true. Edited April 16, 2017 by some1 Hardware: VPForce Rhino, FSSB R3 Ultra, Virpil T-50CM, Hotas Warthog, Winwing F15EX, Slaw Rudder, GVL224 Trio Throttle, Thrustmaster MFDs, Saitek Trim wheel, Trackir 5, Quest Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redglyph Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 I just flew it and it was indicated in knots and feets. Perhaps they gave the choice of the cockpit then, that would make it easier. :) System specs: Win7 x64 | CPU: i7-4770K | RAM: 16 GB | GPU: GTX 980 Ti 6 GB | Thrustmaster HOTAS | MFG rudder pedals | SATA3 SSD | TrackIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 About a month or two ago. Tried to shoot something down with the help of AWACS but the UHF radio is still broken for half a year or more: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=178026 And the bombs: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=183277 And the sidewinder sounds: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=181879 And the currently fantasy gunsight: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=134650 We still have the ugly placeholder LAU launchers instead of the correct SNEB ones, gun keeps firing when you release the trigger, there's no option to hang single Mk-82 bombs, only TERs, gunsight is a decoration that doesn't show the correct aiming point.... I could go on... At least that's what they've been saying for the last 2 years or so. Sure it must be true. Yep, you are right... Wasn't aware latest ED patch messed so much up, again. :cry: Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieHard Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 sorry, couldn't help it My wife is a 1st class knitter, she could easily teach it and make some side money. She has been bugging me for years to show me how. If I ever get bed bound like hospital for any length of time or nursing home---maybe. I'd rather play poker with the guys... Sure could have fun with this thread topic. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoBlue Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 Perhaps they gave the choice of the cockpit then, that would make it easier. :) You can choose if you want knots & feet in the L-39, by changing between imperial/metric in the GUI options. To OP, A-10C is a good & forgiving trainer & since you fly it, you're the perfect instructor ;). i7 8700k@4.7, 1080ti, DDR4 32GB, 2x SSD , HD 2TB, W10, ASUS 27", TrackIr5, TMWH, X-56, GProR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98abaile Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 If she focuses only on the flight part first, the A-10C isn't complicated. When it doesn't need to be set-up for combat missions, then a lot of functionalities can be ignored. At the very beginning, the auto-start can be used, but the start-up checklist isn't overwhelming. It is very easy to fly, take off and land, much more easy than most other aircraft (landing an F-5 or an Albatros requires more precision for instance). It has an easy-to-set autopilot that allows the pilot to take the time to inspect the cockpit or a manual without having to pause. The TAD can also be a great help when one is not familiar with the surroundings, or with navigation. And it has redundant instruments for navigation, control and performance. This and for exactly those reasons. The A-10c may look intimidating, but when you think about the way you are likely to learn to it, you always learn the flying and instruments first (ideally anyway). There's no point using a trainer first and then transitioning over to the A-10c to learn the weapons, since everything you learn in the trainer can be learned in the A-10c anyway, the trainer is redundant. The A-10c is easy and forgiving to fly and contains all the navigation and instruments you need, the only thing it doesn't have is radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMikeJuliet Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Although I enjoy the trainers I have to say that using them to get someone into DCS might not work as well as it sounds like. If she wants to get a simulation of any airforce's training program, then sure. Start in X-Plane with a cessna, transition to the Albatros in DCS after some 100 hours of quality teaching, briefings and debriefings... spend some 200h on the Albatros with the same mantra... and then goon to the A-10C... Or just have fun and start with the A-10C... or A-model if need be. The long way is for those who want it specifically... since this is a sim and a game there is no inherent need to fly trainers first. And gentlemen: can we cut the bashing of VEAO and AvioDev on this thread... we all know their aircraft are in a sad state. No point in bashing them on every bloody subforum. So in short: if she wants specifically a trainer, then gowith the L-39. Don't worry if the gauges are different. The principles in how to use them is all the same, just laid out differently. If not, go with the A-10C. Your task is to make the first steps easy. If needed, do some notes about every step that you are going to teach, so you can avoid getting too complicated early on. There is always the Pause-button. Regards: MikeMikeJuliet DCS Finland | SF squadron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkeye60 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I was going to reply but I can not stop laughing............:megalol: The thoughts going though my head would get me a divorce! :D I better pass on this one............:doh: "Yeah, and though I work in the valley of Death, I will fear no Evil. For where there is one, there is always three. I preparest my aircraft to receive the Iron that will be delivered in the presence of my enemies. Thy ALCM and JDAM they comfort me. Power was given unto the aircrew to make peace upon the world by way of the sword. And when the call went out, Behold the "Sword of Stealth". And his name was Death. And Hell followed him. For the day of wrath has come and no mercy shall be given." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoen Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Easy. If it was one of your drinking buddies who wanted to learn, which plane would you choose? Choose the same one for your wife. The one that is most fun. I'm guessing she's at least as smart as the blokes you drink with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Although I enjoy the trainers I have to say that using them to get someone into DCS might not work as well as it sounds like. If she wants to get a simulation of any airforce's training program, then sure. Start in X-Plane with a cessna, transition to the Albatros in DCS after some 100 hours of quality teaching, briefings and debriefings... spend some 200h on the Albatros with the same mantra... and then goon to the A-10C... Or just have fun and start with the A-10C... or A-model if need be. The long way is for those who want it specifically... since this is a sim and a game there is no inherent need to fly trainers first. And gentlemen: can we cut the bashing of VEAO and AvioDev on this thread... we all know their aircraft are in a sad state. No point in bashing them on every bloody subforum. So in short: if she wants specifically a trainer, then gowith the L-39. Don't worry if the gauges are different. The principles in how to use them is all the same, just laid out differently. If not, go with the A-10C. Your task is to make the first steps easy. If needed, do some notes about every step that you are going to teach, so you can avoid getting too complicated early on. There is always the Pause-button. Regards: MikeMikeJuliet Agree on the A-10. The point with the Trainers in DCS, is the MP dual seat. I found it interesting to join in the back seat and see first hand how much G's or bank angle. Easier to correct and teach if need be. If that isn't a focus, the A-10 is definitely an easy and forgiving plane to fly. Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulfr85 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 sorry, couldn't help it LOL Gesendet von meinem EVA-L09 mit Tapatalk F/A-18C, AV-8B, Huey, Ka-50, Mig-21, A10C, FC3, BF-109, M2000C, AJS-37, P-51 Ryzen 5 2600 ~4Ghz, 16GB DDR4 3200Mhz, EVGA GTX 1070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echo38 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) Agree on the A-10. The point with the Trainers in DCS, is the MP dual seat. I found it interesting to join in the back seat and see first hand how much G's or bank angle. Easier to correct and teach if need be. I think he can just put his chair behind hers IRL for the same effect. : ) One technique I've found invaluable when teaching, in person, someone how to use a flight sim-game, is to put their hand on mine, or mine on theirs, as I move the joystick, so that they can feel how little I'm moving the stick during the maneuver. It weirds some people out, but I'm guessing one's wife won't mind. Edited April 21, 2017 by Echo38 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I think he can just put his chair behind hers IRL for the same effect. : ) One technique I've found invaluable when teaching, in person, someone how to use a flight sim-game, is to put their hand on mine, or mine on theirs, as I move the joystick, so that they can feel how little I'm moving the stick during the maneuver. It weirds some people out, but I'm guessing one's wife won't mind. *lol* you got a point there. I am too used to this "online" MP stuff. Guess unless they have a long distance relationship, the chair is quite effective. And definitely right about the "hands on". Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts