Help with Handling the Spitfire Mk IX (25 Feb was one of the worst days of my...) - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 03-20-2017, 06:17 PM   #21
imacken
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At the moment, I am using my G27 wheel pedals, which work fine. I just thought that because of the fact that the brakes pre-load workaroud seemed to solve a lot of my issues, that not having brakes on a slider could be the issue. However, as you are using a button on the Warthog, like me, then maybe I should stick with the pedals I've got.
BTW, the Crosswinds are way too expensive for me!
I though the new Thrustmasters with the pedals on rails and toe brakes looked pretty interesting for not much money.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:11 PM   #22
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Hey imacken - I don't as yet have the Spitfire module, but had similar problems with another WW2 sim with tail draggers, where upon landing and slowing down the aircraft would ground loop (spin around the main landing gear, making a nice doughnut on the ground ), and often drag a wing tip.

The most important thing that helped me upon touching down (assuming I had cut back my throttle all the way), was to increase throttle to approximately 15-20% power, pulling back on the stick 100%, and gently but steadily applying ever increasing brake pressure until I came to a stop.

The issue with me (and maybe you) was that when the aircraft slowed down, there wasn't enough air flow over the control surfaces (esp. the rudder and elevators). By increasing throttle and pulling the stick back, there was a constant flow of air over the elevators, keeping the tail pressed against the ground, allowing the rudder and, more importantly (if it locks) the tail wheel to provide more directional authority.

Hope it helps.

Relent
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:54 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 609_Relentov View Post
Hey imacken - I don't as yet have the Spitfire module, but had similar problems with another WW2 sim with tail draggers, where upon landing and slowing down the aircraft would ground loop (spin around the main landing gear, making a nice doughnut on the ground ), and often drag a wing tip.

The most important thing that helped me upon touching down (assuming I had cut back my throttle all the way), was to increase throttle to approximately 15-20% power, pulling back on the stick 100%, and gently but steadily applying ever increasing brake pressure until I came to a stop.

The issue with me (and maybe you) was that when the aircraft slowed down, there wasn't enough air flow over the control surfaces (esp. the rudder and elevators). By increasing throttle and pulling the stick back, there was a constant flow of air over the elevators, keeping the tail pressed against the ground, allowing the rudder and, more importantly (if it locks) the tail wheel to provide more directional authority.

Hope it helps.

Relent
I appreciate your comments, thank you.
Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:37 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by imacken View Post
I appreciate your comments, thank you.
Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!
The tail wheel is your answer, so by applying brakes you can adjust the direction of the tail wheel. If you want confirmation of this start a flight in the Spitfire from the ground. Go to F4 view external looking at the rear of the aeroplane. Increase your throttle so you start to move then apply rudder, you will notice that you have very limited response and no tail wheel response. Now apply brakes and rudder then notice how the tail wheel responds. So when touching down upon landing dab brakes to gain a control of the tail wheel keeping it straight and thereafter small inputs on the brakes whilst applying simultaneous rudder input to guide the aircraft to a stop whilst maintaining a straight line.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
I appreciate your comments, thank you.
Unfortunately, unlike say the Mustang, the tail on the Spit doesn't lock, so there is freewheeling all the time!
That's fine, the principle still works the same (even more so - in my examples I was landing with the Lagg3 and La5, which also have no locking tail wheel). The key is keeping the throttle up a little as mentioned after touching down - this keeps a significant flow of air flowing over the tail surfaces - including the rudder - thus minimizing the tail slide.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:21 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Krupi View Post
Yes I got it mate, good to hear you have got the hang of it .

I sent you an response regarding the pedals, definiently ask on these forums before buying.

I can highly recommend the MFG Crosswind pedals...

http://mfg.simundza.com/products
Krupi, my progress was short lived! I may need to take you up on your online offer after all!
I feel like I'm going backwards now.
Here is a typical track. Not my best (or worst!), but I though I would just show the kind of thing that happens. Any advice very welcome!
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Krupi, my progress was short lived! I may need to take you up on your online offer after all!
I feel like I'm going backwards now.
Here is a typical track. Not my best (or worst!), but I though I would just show the kind of thing that happens. Any advice very welcome!
I viewed your track several times and the only thing that I can think of is that you may have stayed on the rudder just a little too long during the middle portion of your landing. Maybe if you come off of any particular rudder input a little before you see the full result it may help. I'm running into the same problem now and then, but the vast majority of my landings are OK.

Attached is a track of a circuit that I did (pardon the view adjustment at the start). Note the air speeds and trim settings in addition to the control inputs at the lower left. I aim to approach at 95 to 100 mph, but I was slightly slow just before the flare.

JimTM Spitfire IX - 2017-03-22 - Circuit Practice.trk
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:24 PM   #28
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I made a take-off landing vid with the view pulled back so you can see my rudder inputs. Not sure if this will help. Like JimTM says, don't stay on any one rudder input too long. As soon as I see indications that my rudder input is being followed, I reverse it to eliminate any possibility of going too far, then reverse it again, and again until you're slow enough to control direction under braking.

You shouldn't need any brakes upon first touching down and rolling for a bit. Only once you get slower. And depending on your speed on touchdown, you may need more or less deflection of the rudder to get a resulting response. It'll take practice and keen observation to get a sense of what you're going to need based on how fast you're going.

I rarely look at the MPH of my approach any more. I just make sure to fly down the runway around 5 to 10 feet off the ground until I'm tracking straight down the center with no side slip and wings level. Once I'm flying down the runway, I gently bring the throttle back until I can keep it flying at that 5 to 10 ft but just above stall. When I'm confident I have the stability and angle, I just edge the throttle a TINY bit back and keep the nose up until touch down.

The majority of my landings now take place after flying along the runway for at least 4 or 5 seconds. It bleeds speed and allows you to get centered and stable so you don't have to think about that part when you touch down. Just think about back and forth on the rudder.

Just swim down the runway with your rudder like the tail of a fish. Maybe that analogy will help? Here's the vid I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMnwJdk97uQ

Last edited by No.401_Wolverine; 03-22-2017 at 04:53 PM.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by imacken View Post
Krupi, my progress was short lived! I may need to take you up on your online offer after all!
I feel like I'm going backwards now.
Here is a typical track. Not my best (or worst!), but I though I would just show the kind of thing that happens. Any advice very welcome!
Sure, I will be available around 7:30 tonight if you have the time?
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No.401_Wolverine View Post
I made a take-off landing vid with the view pulled back so you can see my rudder inputs. Not sure if this will help. Like JimTM says, don't stay on any one rudder input too long. As soon as I see indications that my rudder input is being followed, I reverse it to eliminate any possibility of going too far, then reverse it again, and again until you're slow enough to control direction under braking.

You shouldn't need any brakes upon first touching down and rolling for a bit. Only once you get slower. And depending on your speed on touchdown, you may need more or less deflection of the rudder to get a resulting response. It'll take practice and keen observation to get a sense of what you're going to need based on how fast you're going.

I rarely look at the MPH of my approach any more. I just make sure to fly down the runway around 5 to 10 feet off the ground until I'm tracking straight down the center with no side slip and wings level. Once I'm flying down the runway, I gently bring the throttle back until I can keep it flying at that 5 to 10 ft but just above stall. When I'm confident I have the stability and angle, I just edge the throttle a TINY bit back and keep the nose up until touch down.

The majority of my landings now take place after flying along the runway for at least 4 or 5 seconds. It bleeds speed and allows you to get centered and stable so you don't have to think about that part when you touch down. Just think about back and forth on the rudder.

Just swim down the runway with your rudder like the tail of a fish. Maybe that analogy will help? Here's the vid I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMnwJdk97uQ
JimTM, thanks for that. I'll have a look at your track later.
Wolverine, thanks. I fully understand how the rudder works, the dancing back and fore like a fish as you say.
My problem is not that, I think my issue is that I can't get to the rudder stage regularly.
What happens is that if I try and hover slowly, I just get a wing tipping over to the right, and can't control it. If I hover at a higher speed, I have better control, but regularly, I touch down too heavily, and damage the undercarriage. I have tried hovering and letting the Spit drop naturally with and without throttle change so that trim doesn't change. I have tried gradually reducing the throttle as the plane is hovering and letting that lower it. I can succeed sometimes, but not often!
I have looked at your video before, and feel sick! You make it look so simple! I honestly am beginning to think there is something wrong with me or my equipment. I mean, I understand all the principles, replicate conditions in videos and follow advice, but still I have the issue.
Very, very frustrating.
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