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Old 03-19-2017, 07:29 PM   #31
LCYCowboy
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I think the Mig-21 has the nicest cockpit, and is by far the most fun to fly and fight in.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:53 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Shadow.D. View Post
Not a problem.

As others have mentioned, keep in mind the Viggen is really a strike aircraft, the limited A2A IR capability, is primarily for defense. The Mirage will offer the flexibility... but there is something special, about flying the Viggen as it was intended, extremely low and fast.

I hope you enjoy whichever choice you make.


Thanks.
In the days when I used multi-monitors I was able to set up one monitor showing the manual.pdf and flip through the instructions as I was flying. How is it done now without flipping off/on the headset constantly? My only thought would be to load it into the kneeboard builder.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:31 PM   #33
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It might sound weird, but not having the manual to hand when being in the rift has actually improved my learning process. Without the ability to easily reference the docs, it forces you into having to have more of an understanding of whatever aspect you want to train on without being in the pit.

Just takes a little more prep work out of the cockpit, wether it be flight manual or other sources. Occasionally i will pause and lift the rift, if its something complex that i just cant nail.

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Do you find you can read the numbers and other details on the Mirage radar without zooming? I find that difficult to do: the print is so fine. This means going REALLY heads down to get any info!
I would agree seeing the information on the radar screen can be tricky, i find a do have to lean in a little if there is alot of new info. If for example i am keeping track of a targets heading/closing speed. Once i know the initial information, quick glances are enough to keep you up to date.

But i agree it could be clearer.

Last edited by Shadow.D.; 03-20-2017 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-20-2017, 10:28 PM   #34
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I know from having the A-10c, there were a lot of functions I just couldn't figure out without studying the manual. I take it the M2000c and AJS-37 are no less complex in their nav, radar, and weapon systems.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:40 AM   #35
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Quote:
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I know from having the A-10c, there were a lot of functions I just couldn't figure out without studying the manual. I take it the M2000c and AJS-37 are no less complex in their nav, radar, and weapon systems.
I've enjoyed so much learning Black Shark. Got it the day of release. The first fully functional module. It's been many years since and I still enjoy flying it. I bought mirage a year ago but never even bothered trying it because it wasn't quite ready. About 2 months ago I decided it was time to try it out. Found Chuck's guide really useful in combination with the manual. Really enjoyed learning it. Now I have 3 favorite modules Ka-50, mig-21 (cockpit is stunning in vr) and M-2000 is my number 1 at the moment.
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Old 03-21-2017, 04:52 AM   #36
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I've enjoyed so much learning Black Shark. Got it the day of release. The first fully functional module. It's been many years since and I still enjoy flying it. I bought mirage a year ago but never even bothered trying it because it wasn't quite ready. About 2 months ago I decided it was time to try it out. Found Chuck's guide really useful in combination with the manual. Really enjoyed learning it. Now I have 3 favorite modules Ka-50, mig-21 (cockpit is stunning in vr) and M-2000 is my number 1 at the moment.


What's your learning technique? Did you make Chuck's guide into a kneeboard file or how did you fly and learn without popping off the headset every few minutes?
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:13 AM   #37
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What's your learning technique? Did you make Chuck's guide into a kneeboard file or how did you fly and learn without popping off the headset every few minutes?
I wish I knew how to make manuals or guides into a kneeboard. I just jump into the cockpit of an aircraft and try to get familiar with it looking at all the switches and gauges. Then I take a manual and guide and just read. I read through the basic functionality first then go into basic training missions like start up and navigation. Start up is always the hardest part and I do start up mission a few times up to 3 times in the row depending on complexity of a given aircraft. Then the next day I do 3 start ups myself (every time trying to do it faster) by then I feel pretty confident and have no issues remembering even if I take a long break from flying. Then I read on navigation systems then do the training mission on take off and navigation. Same process with weapon systems and so on.
There are also videos on youtube that can be helpful.
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Old 03-21-2017, 06:43 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow.D. View Post
It might sound weird, but not having the manual to hand when being in the rift has actually improved my learning process. Without the ability to easily reference the docs, it forces you into having to have more of an understanding of whatever aspect you want to train on without being in the pit.

Just takes a little more prep work out of the cockpit, wether it be flight manual or other sources. Occasionally i will pause and lift the rift, if its something complex that i just cant nail.
I agree, that is the way to do it!

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Do you find you can read the numbers and other details on the Mirage radar without zooming? I find that difficult to do: the print is so fine. This means going REALLY heads down to get any info!
Maybe if your system allows increase you pixel density. I have it at 1.7 and radar is very clear.

Last edited by RUS38; 03-21-2017 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 03-21-2017, 02:19 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUS38 View Post
I wish I knew how to make manuals or guides into a kneeboard. I just jump into the cockpit of an aircraft and try to get familiar with it looking at all the switches and gauges. Then I take a manual and guide and just read. I read through the basic functionality first then go into basic training missions like start up and navigation. Start up is always the hardest part and I do start up mission a few times up to 3 times in the row depending on complexity of a given aircraft. Then the next day I do 3 start ups myself (every time trying to do it faster) by then I feel pretty confident and have no issues remembering even if I take a long break from flying. Then I read on navigation systems then do the training mission on take off and navigation. Same process with weapon systems and so on.
There are also videos on youtube that can be helpful.


Thanks for the tip RUS38.
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Old 03-23-2017, 08:25 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Shadow.D. View Post
I guess it depends on what version of DCS you are using, i get the feeling there might be more problems with 2.0 versions.

Honestly i wouldnt like to comment on current bugs as i have not flown the Mirage since the Viggen release. I can say that the time i spent in the aircraft pre 1.5.6 (Viggen Update). There really wasnt any major bugs that inhibited flying sorties in the Mirage, was able to learn everything i needed to without any issues and flew the campaign with no problems outside of a couple of editor related bugs.

But they are very good with mission/campaign updates which can be found on the forums before they are included with any DCS updates, if you dont want to wait for ED.

I would advise having a little dig deeper into this, see what others say. As for 2.0 versions i cannot comment as i do not really fly on NTTR. It could be worth waiting for the next 1.5.6 update before purchasing either module, as i'm sure alot of the niggling bugs will be sorted (assuming more dont arise).


The cockpit is in French, but honestly it didnt bother me. I'm sure there are English mods, but i couldnt confirm that. As for the French, its kind of takes a back seat as really your learning what the switches do and the layout, as you would other aircraft. Once you know that, it becomes second nature hitting the switches you need. Tooltips are in english as a backup and everything else is relatable to every other aircraft in terms of dials/readouts. So i really didnt have any issues.

There is also alot of learning material out there for the Mirage, some very good youtube series going over most aspects. I'm sure you are already aware of these channels, but if not they are very good, along side the flight manual. Everything i have needed has been covered.

youtube.com/user/4023446
youtube.com/channel/UCgf5iXct_J8EQ_erBSsu6OA


Indeed the Mirage is capable of A2A refueling, it uses the probe-and-drogue method. Which is different and interesting to use, easier in some ways to the A10C, but also different challenges (getting used to the fly-by-wire during this can be tricky). But with training and with the advantages of VR depth perception, is satisfying to get it right.

It can carry up to three drop tanks for long range sorties, the central drop tank is slightly smaller than the wing bags and is sufficient for most flights.

Out of interest have you got the thread link for this major bug, in the Mirage forum? Would be interesting to take a look.



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