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Old 05-01-2018, 02:57 PM   #1
MikeMikeJuliet
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Lightbulb FC4 feature requests

Hello.

Regarding this post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...10&postcount=1
Now that there is an FC4-pack in the horizon, I would like to propose improvements to
the existing system.

In my experience (and in the experience of my flight group) FC3 aircrafts' systems modeling
have in particular two shortcomings that really hamper the usefulness of FC3 aircraft.
In particular the Navigation systems of all the aircraft are simplified so much that instead
of making gameplay easier it actually makes gameplay more difficult.

I propose the following: Add TACAN (western aircraft) and RSBN (or VORDME, eastern aircraft) mode to the NAV master mode. To keep this simple, regard the beacons in the same way as waypoints. So in stead of tuning in a correct frequency, only have the ability to cycle through the beacons with "next" and "previous" keys. This would add a ton to the navigation capabilities of the aircraft by reducing the need to have waypoints on every usable airfield, or to try to circumvent this by using landing-modes to determine an airfield.

In addition to this, add the ability to change the course to the beacons. This could remain as it is for waypoints - after all, it is simpler for new users to have the correct course always visible to any waypoint. By adding such a feature to the aforementioned beacon-mode players would be able to navigate any landscape with the ease that you can with the real aircraft without the need to pre-design routes in the Mission Editor with waypoints.

Most FC3 aircraft have, but not all, the ability to see which waypoint, airfield etc is selected. This is particularly annoying with the F-15C, where you need to determine toward which airfield you are heading by looking at distances and bearings only - such a design desicion really emphasizes the use of F-10 map, which is no in my opinion realistic at all. Even if it was not exactly like in the real aircraft, I would dearly want to see the airfield name on the F-15C HUD. This is one of those things that is way too difficult to use due to the systems "simplicity".

Finally - all FC aircraft must have a player-controllable pressure setting for the altimeter. Some aircraft have this feature, others don't and I do not see why. If one wants to fly anything more realistic with dynamic weather (and thus changing pressure), or use, say QNH and STD, then a controllable pressure setting is a must.



These features would add a lot of gameplay value without the need to design the actual systems and without the need to make the aircraft too complex for beginners. I do hope these suggestion bring about conversation and possibly even support.


Eagle Dynamics - please consider my suggestions. These would add a lot of value to the already very convenient Module-pack.

Regards,
MikeMikeJuliet
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:26 PM   #2
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If there's going to be an FC4, please can you guys introduce a 4th Gen Russian multirole fighter like a Su-30/34/35 or a MiG-29K/MiG-31 since the hope of getting a DCS level one is 0 right now.
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:31 PM   #3
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Those are good QoL improvements there, good ideas!
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMikeJuliet View Post
Hello.

Regarding this post: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...10&postcount=1
Now that there is an FC4-pack in the horizon, I would like to propose improvements to
the existing system.

In my experience (and in the experience of my flight group) FC3 aircrafts' systems modeling
have in particular two shortcomings that really hamper the usefulness of FC3 aircraft.
In particular the Navigation systems of all the aircraft are simplified so much that instead
of making gameplay easier it actually makes gameplay more difficult.

I propose the following: Add TACAN (western aircraft) and RSBN (or VORDME, eastern aircraft) mode to the NAV master mode. To keep this simple, regard the beacons in the same way as waypoints. So in stead of tuning in a correct frequency, only have the ability to cycle through the beacons with "next" and "previous" keys. This would add a ton to the navigation capabilities of the aircraft by reducing the need to have waypoints on every usable airfield, or to try to circumvent this by using landing-modes to determine an airfield.

In addition to this, add the ability to change the course to the beacons. This could remain as it is for waypoints - after all, it is simpler for new users to have the correct course always visible to any waypoint. By adding such a feature to the aforementioned beacon-mode players would be able to navigate any landscape with the ease that you can with the real aircraft without the need to pre-design routes in the Mission Editor with waypoints.

Most FC3 aircraft have, but not all, the ability to see which waypoint, airfield etc is selected. This is particularly annoying with the F-15C, where you need to determine toward which airfield you are heading by looking at distances and bearings only - such a design desicion really emphasizes the use of F-10 map, which is no in my opinion realistic at all. Even if it was not exactly like in the real aircraft, I would dearly want to see the airfield name on the F-15C HUD. This is one of those things that is way too difficult to use due to the systems "simplicity".

Finally - all FC aircraft must have a player-controllable pressure setting for the altimeter. Some aircraft have this feature, others don't and I do not see why. If one wants to fly anything more realistic with dynamic weather (and thus changing pressure), or use, say QNH and STD, then a controllable pressure setting is a must.



These features would add a lot of gameplay value without the need to design the actual systems and without the need to make the aircraft too complex for beginners. I do hope these suggestion bring about conversation and possibly even support.


Eagle Dynamics - please consider my suggestions. These would add a lot of value to the already very convenient Module-pack.

Regards,
MikeMikeJuliet
Aside from the ability to see which airfield you have selected in Nav mode, I actually think these suggestions DO NOT add much gameplay value. But that is just my 2 cents. The number of key presses you need to memorize in FC3 is already pushing the limits since there are no clickable pits. I think adding a bunch of extra Navigation and altimeter related key presses would just further complicate aircraft usage.

Short version: Systems depth needs to remain appropriate for a game that utilizes key presses vs clickable pits.

Last edited by malibu43; 05-01-2018 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 05-01-2018, 03:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malibu43 View Post
Aside from the ability to see which airfield you have selected in Nav mode, I actually think these suggestions DO NOT add much gameplay value. But that is just my 2 cents. The number of key presses you need to memorize in FC3 is already pushing the limits since there are no clickable pits. I think adding a bunch of extra Navigation and altimeter related key presses would just further complicate aircraft usage.

Short version: Systems depth needs to remain appropriate for a game that utilizes key presses vs clickable pits.
In actuality there would only be two additional buttons, since all FC3 aircraft already have next and previous waypoint buttons (that could also be used for the beacon mode), the new Nav submode could simply be switched to by the same "1" key, and all FC3 aircraft already have a "increase altimeter pressure setting" and "decrease altimeter pressure setting" (which are just not used in A-10A and F-15C for some reason).

So only "turn course knob clockwise" and "turn course knob counterclockwise" would need to be added.


Regards,
MikeMikeJuliet
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:09 PM   #6
zhukov032186
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Yeah, he's not talking about reinventing the wheel, nor do you need to memorise everything, anyway.
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Old 05-01-2018, 05:15 PM   #7
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Had not seen Ninelines post before. Really surprised about the FC4 news and intrigued to see where they go with it.
I am absolutely delighted about the interest in the de haviland Mosquito. It was truly wonderful.
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Old 05-01-2018, 06:03 PM   #8
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I think adding the airport names in the F-15 should not be done. Don't just go add things that aren't even in the plane simply for gameplay reasons. Also remembering the key's in FC are not that bad. 80% is on the HOTAS anyway. And all planes have basically the same key configuration, with some minor differences. So adding a couple more key's would not be a problem at all.

What i would like to see:

1. Add some more animations in the cockpit for buttons/switches. Like the switch you see animated in the SU-27 for wheel steering unlock.
2. Make a limited amount of buttons/switches clickable. Doesn't have to be much, just some important ones.
3. Add a simple MFD dispplay. With some basic buttons/switches to switch trough it, or have it that you can just map that function to your joystick/keyboard without any clickable switches.
4. Simple controllable radio's even if we have to do it with key bindings.
5. Some love.

I hope the FC4 package will include, 1 Russian modern jet with FC4 level air to ground capability, 1 jet that's not Russian or American, one bomber/strike aircraft for red and blue side. Or maybe a FC4 level chopper for the rotor heads if that's practical in the first place.
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Old 05-01-2018, 11:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
1. Add some more animations in the cockpit for buttons/switches. Like the switch you see animated in the SU-27 for wheel steering unlock.
+1, although not top priority
Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
2. Make a limited amount of buttons/switches clickable. Doesn't have to be much, just some important ones.
+1 Memorising shortcuts should be optional - you may use the keyboard shortcut if you want, or you could click the corresponding button in the pit. Other buttons in the pit would remain "dead".
With the ongoing VR revolution this makes complete sense as keyboards are not really usable in VR.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
3. Add a simple MFD dispplay. With some basic buttons/switches to switch trough it, or have it that you can just map that function to your joystick/keyboard without any clickable switches.
Not sure what you meant here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
4. Simple controllable radio's even if we have to do it with key bindings.
-1 sorry Simple radios only in FC imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
5. Some love.

Last edited by Katmandu; 05-01-2018 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 05-02-2018, 07:34 AM   #10
MikeMikeJuliet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winchesterdelta1 View Post
I think adding the airport names in the F-15 should not be done. Don't just go add things that aren't even in the plane simply for gameplay reasons. Also remembering the key's in FC are not that bad. 80% is on the HOTAS anyway. And all planes have basically the same key configuration, with some minor differences. So adding a couple more key's would not be a problem at all.

What i would like to see:

1. Add some more animations in the cockpit for buttons/switches. Like the switch you see animated in the SU-27 for wheel steering unlock.
2. Make a limited amount of buttons/switches clickable. Doesn't have to be much, just some important ones.
3. Add a simple MFD dispplay. With some basic buttons/switches to switch trough it, or have it that you can just map that function to your joystick/keyboard without any clickable switches.
4. Simple controllable radio's even if we have to do it with key bindings.
5. Some love.

I hope the FC4 package will include, 1 Russian modern jet with FC4 level air to ground capability, 1 jet that's not Russian or American, one bomber/strike aircraft for red and blue side. Or maybe a FC4 level chopper for the rotor heads if that's practical in the first place.
While I agree with the sentiment of not making game'y additions to the aircraft, I do feel that such a way would be the most practical. I believe this because I do not see ED adding clickable features to FC3 aircraft. In addition if we take the F-15, the only way to know which TACAN would be selected for example is to animate a TACAN channel selector. While realistic, you would then have to have the MFD pages created to be able to know which airfield's approach mode is selected to match... this quickly snowballs into a lot of work needed to be done to the modules.

My approach, while not 100% realistic, would require minimal effort (increasing likelyhood of us actually getting said features). After all we already have waypoint information on the HUD, so having the ability to show APP mode airfield identifier/name (like in the A-10A) and in the aforementioned beacon mode the TACAN channel would not be intrusive nor immersion breaking.

In fact HUD symbology and information displayed there changes in aircraft through their lifespan as improvements are made. So the F-15C HUD we have now is not the only F-15C HUD there is/could be. I am not suggesting that we go wildly out there, not at all. But the data block is already there so...

In the end ED's main focus rightly is and should be in other things instead of FC-aircraft, so I am approaching the subject from a minimal effort, maximal gain perspective.



Regards,
MikeMikeJuliet
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Last edited by MikeMikeJuliet; 05-02-2018 at 07:39 AM.
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