Adverse yaw moment during taxi with high NWS sideslip angles - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2018, 01:15 AM   #31
Deano87
Senior Member
 
Deano87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,265
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Condor_USAF View Post
Except that 'yaw' is also an aerodynamic term. Whilst on the ground during taxi, it's just a 'turn' (I've never heard any pilot refer to a taxiing turn as yawing).
Nope its not an aerodynamic term. Yaw is the name for any rigid body movement around the vertical (z) axis. Boats and cars Yaw as well, just as they also Pitch and Roll. My point was not about what pilots call it, it was more that the language being used was technically valid... again, if we are being pedantic .

While it might not be natural for a pilot to refer to turning the aircraft on the ground as yawing, as the aircraft is turning it is rotating around the Z axis compared to a reference point (IE the ground) and so it is actually yawing, that is the technical term for what that object is doing.
__________________
Ignore me I’m probably wrong - Now with 42% extra sarcasm - May contain nuts.

Proud owner of:
PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.
My Screenshots

Last edited by Deano87; 12-02-2018 at 01:23 AM.
Deano87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2018, 09:51 AM   #32
discwalker
Senior Member
 
discwalker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,311
Unhappy

For clarity's sake many of us in this forum are non native speakers!
Please try to understand others! And stay on topic!
Now normal taxiing turn inputs lead to sea-bathing. (The margin of the carrier deck is only visual.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	sea_bathing.jpg
Views:	244
Size:	153.3 KB
ID:	199099  
__________________
GTX 1070 8GB, 16GB DDR3, W8.1 on SSD, DCS on another SSD
discwalker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 07:08 PM   #33
JaBoG32_Dirty
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: All the way up front
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deano87 View Post
Nope its not an aerodynamic term. Yaw is the name for any rigid body movement around the vertical (z) axis.
Exactly! :-)

Adverse = Against the direction of the control input (as opposed to proverse).
Yaw = Rotation around the vertical axis (for DCS this is the y-axis)

Btw, I actually work in the field, and I wouldn’t know what better term to use to describe this behaviour.

But whether you like this expression or not really isn't the topic. What is, is the fact that in this scenario the simulated vehicles in DCS experience an angular acceleration around the vertical axis that is in a direction that is opposite to the control input.
I did my best to bring this to the developers attention and have unfortunately not gotten an answer from anyone who actually worked with vehicle motion dynamics in a professional way.

I found this behaviour on other models, so I guess it is not type-specific. Furthermore, I found taildraggers topple over forward (not sideways!) easily with high sideslip angles as well.

That observation too supports my thesis: The reason for the strange behaviour at high wheel sideslip angles is that DCS calculates a drag-term that is opposite to the vehicle direction of motion, when it should instead be opposite to the relative direction of the sliding surfaces.

For a free spinning wheel that direction is always along the wheel axis.


And again: Yes, you can still enjoy DCS World. I do too! Not a big thing! It’s just that I would’ve expected to at least hear from a developer briefly.
JaBoG32_Dirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 08:29 PM   #34
Swiftwin9s
Member
 
Swiftwin9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London, UK
Posts: 815
Default

For those of you claiming this to be game breaking because you keep taxiing off the carrier.

The issue at hand isn't to do with the loss of friction when applying overly aggressive NWS HI inputs, the issue is to do with the yawing behaviour shown when such a slide occurs.

If you find yourself sliding when taxiing, instead of blaming the game. LEARN, learn what mistake you are making and rectify your actions accordingly. If you want to do a tight turn keep slow and keep soft. Don't go slamming the NWS HI around; Start gentle and then once you start to turn, then you can go full deflection.
Swiftwin9s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 10:32 PM   #35
Gripes323
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 955
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftwin9s View Post
For those of you claiming this to be game breaking because you keep taxiing off the carrier.

The issue at hand isn't to do with the loss of friction when applying overly aggressive NWS HI inputs, the issue is to do with the yawing behaviour shown when such a slide occurs.

If you find yourself sliding when taxiing, instead of blaming the game. LEARN, learn what mistake you are making and rectify your actions accordingly. If you want to do a tight turn keep slow and keep soft. Don't go slamming the NWS HI around; Start gentle and then once you start to turn, then you can go full deflection.
Yes, we learn... just like we learn to deal with few other quirks...
I actually thought this issue was fixed a while back and I praised ED but... on my next virtual deployment I almost ran into another jet on deck. The first time I encountered this wrong way skid I thought I was in Harrier's "caster" mode with freewheeling nose going past 90* but that wasn't it.
Gripes323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2019, 11:15 PM   #36
Swiftwin9s
Member
 
Swiftwin9s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: London, UK
Posts: 815
Default

Gripes323, I have never had an issue with hornet running off the deck. This is because I use the NWS HI gently, its not a bug (Unless you count the side to side sliding of a pitching deck) its just what happens when you try and stop several tons of aluminium with only a few inches of rubber.
Swiftwin9s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2019, 12:12 AM   #37
Gripes323
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 955
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiftwin9s View Post
Gripes323, I have never had an issue with hornet running off the deck. This is because I use the NWS HI gently, its not a bug (Unless you count the side to side sliding of a pitching deck) its just what happens when you try and stop several tons of aluminium with only a few inches of rubber.

I never have either. I'm referring to what OP was talking about … the direction of slip.


Oh, as far as the deck environment... absolutely, the deck can be slippery for other reasons too.
Gripes323 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
annoying, bug, f/a-18c, hornet, nws, taxi

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:31 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.