Should I buy the MIG-21?

Honestly I don't understand why people keep saying that the Mig-21 is one of the most realistic a/c in DCS, when right now it's flawed in almost every area, from FM to weapon system, from Navigation to Starcode activation.

It's a fun aircraft to fly, but I really hope M3 straighten it up and bring the realism level it deserves

Regards

Honestly I don't understand why people keep saying that the Mig-21 is one of the most realistic a/c in DCS, when right now it's flawed in almost every area, from FM to weapon system, from Navigation to Starcode activation.

 

It's a fun aircraft to fly, but I really hope M3 straighten it up and bring the realism level it deserves

 

Regards

???

Honestly I don't understand why people keep saying that the Mig-21 is one of the most realistic a/c in DCS, when right now it's flawed in almost every area, from FM to weapon system, from Navigation to Starcode activation.

 

It's a fun aircraft to fly, but I really hope M3 straighten it up and bring the realism level it deserves

 

Regards

proof ?

proof ?

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3085567&postcount=16

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3086812&postcount=20

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=142375

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2691071&postcount=22

etc, etc...

Regards

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3085567&postcount=16

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3086812&postcount=20

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=142375

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2691071&postcount=22

 

etc, etc...

 

Regards

Hmm ok.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3085567&postcount=16

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3086812&postcount=20

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=142375

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2691071&postcount=22

 

etc, etc...

 

Regards

These are interesting objective observations based upon written manuals. I was completely unaware of these when I bought the Mig 21.

However how many of us has actually flown a Mig 21, either in combat or in a circuit?

I can only apply my subjective experience of flying the Mig 21 in this simulator. This experience is a wholly satisfying one and apart from an error noticed with the Gyro verses Fixed sight mechanism, doesn't detract from the "game" experience. Note the emphasis on game. Whilst I like to delude myself (in my old age) that I can fly a Mig 21, I am in no doubt that ultimately, I am flying a simulated aircraft, in a game.

I fear that if the developers were tasked to produce a simulation capable of satisfying the subjective experience of a real world Mig 21 pilot, the cost of the module would be beyond my reach?

A similar circumstance exists in the FSX/P3d "game" world. Here the makers of an Airbus ask for a large fee for their simulation, based upon the premise that it's a real world simulation experience, albeit in a simulation that specifies its not for real world pilot training and per se, a game.

I applaud the striving for realism, but acknowledge the limitations of the platform.

Regards

David

MiG-21, just as any complex piece of software, has some issues. The navigation system could be better, weapons selector is inaccurately implemented, gunsight needs some improvement too etc. I don't have a clue how a MiG-21 is supposed to behave in flight, so I won't comment the flight model.

But I would dare to say that none of these issues, no matter how annoying some of them may be, are not even close to be game braking, and don't make MiG-21 a bad module. On the contrary, it is a great module.

Recently, after the LNS split, Dolphin said they are intensifying the work on the module. Indeed, there seem to be more activity in their bug tracker during last month then in the entire 2016 :). So let's wait what will the future patches bring. I know I'll continue to enjoy the MiG just as the day I bought it almost two years ago, and will continue to recommend it to anybody who asks.

These are interesting objective observations based upon written manuals. I was completely unaware of these when I bought the Mig 21.

 

However how many of us has actually flown a Mig 21, either in combat or in a circuit?

 

I can only apply my subjective experience of flying the Mig 21 in this simulator. This experience is a wholly satisfying one and apart from an error noticed with the Gyro verses Fixed sight mechanism, doesn't detract from the "game" experience. Note the emphasis on game. Whilst I like to delude myself (in my old age) that I can fly a Mig 21, I am in no doubt that ultimately, I am flying a simulated aircraft, in a game.

 

I fear that if the developers were tasked to produce a simulation capable of satisfying the subjective experience of a real world Mig 21 pilot, the cost of the module would be beyond my reach?

 

A similar circumstance exists in the FSX/P3d "game" world. Here the makers of an Airbus ask for a large fee for their simulation, based upon the premise that it's a real world simulation experience, albeit in a simulation that specifies its not for real world pilot training and per se, a game.

 

I applaud the striving for realism, but acknowledge the limitations of the platform.

 

Regards

 

David

Great post among a see of posts full of claims.

For instance, the RSBN. Yes, the way how the panel works is different and L-39 does a bit better job in this respect. On the other hand the system was implemented long before ED did it in the core. If you focus on the core function of the system - it does it's job. It'll guide the plane on the descend as also landing correctly. Besides, why as a users should we care there is single file in the background?

Another point is that the issues steams from how DCS implements the nav aids. They should be a mission editor assets that mission designers could place according to the needs.

Anyway, IMO everything depends on the attitude. Using another example, for some the fact that the weapon selector does not switch automatically is a show stopper. For others a discrepancy that should be fixed but barely an inconvenience.

MiG-21, just as any complex piece of software, has some issues. The navigation system could be better, weapons selector is inaccurately implemented, gunsight needs some improvement too etc. I don't have a clue how a MiG-21 is supposed to behave in flight, so I won't comment the flight model.

 

But I would dare to say that none of these issues, no matter how annoying some of them may be, are not even close to be game braking, and don't make MiG-21 a bad module. On the contrary, it is a great module.

 

Recently, after the LNS split, Dolphin said they are intensifying the work on the module. Indeed, there seem to be more activity in their bug tracker during last month then in the entire 2016 :). So let's wait what will the future patches bring. I know I'll continue to enjoy the MiG just as the day I bought it almost two years ago, and will continue to recommend it to anybody who asks.

+1. I would rep you but I have to "spread some reputation". Whatever it means :D

Besides, why as a users should we care there is single file in the background?

Because it is intended as a STUDY. SIMULATION. If the aircraft was intended and advertised as being FC3 or Il-2 level, you could have a point.

But for something that is advertised as a study sim I expect it to be as realistic as can be reasonably gotten. We're not nitpicking a 5% performance difference or an external model that has the screws in the wrong place.

We're talking about important pieces of avionics, weapons and flight modelling that are completely missing or Ace Combat levels of wrong.

By the way, cost and platform limitations are nonsense. Other modules have managed fine. The fact that even something as simple as a clock isn't implemented is just unforgivable.

...The fact that even something as simple as a clock isn't implemented is just unforgivable.

I wanted to comment but after reading to the end. Sorry, I'll pass...

Unforgivable!

What about the unrealistic behavior of the SPO-10? The ASP providing bombing solutions with the radar-off? Simplified navigation with an unrealistically modeled ARK-9/10? No real ground returns when radar pointing downwards? Small nuances as well?

Of course there are different levels of realism, each of them valid for different kind of public. But as Vicent says, don't try to sell the product as an "study sim" then, it's misleading and directly false.

Regards

+1. I would rep you but I have to "spread some reputation". Whatever it means :D

I covered you buddy! indeed. Great posts. :thumbup:

Are their any DCS Modules that are labelled, depicted or even branded, as "Study Sim", that do not compromise on any aspect of detail, however minor, pertaining to the real world aircraft for which they simulate within DCS World. Would love to be shown the 'perfect' module. Please tell. ;)

Regards,

- P-51d Mustang

- Fw 190 D-9

- Bf 109 K-4

- L-39 Albatross

- Spitfire L.F. Mk IX

- Hawk

- Mi-8MTV2

- F-86F

- MiG-15bis

- F-5E

- AJS-37 Viggen

- C-101

Your point being? :)

The Mig-21 its one of my favorite jets.

Would love to be shown the 'perfect' module. Please tell. ;)

IMO at the top is ED/Belsimtek modules, although the rest are not doing bad these days. I keep my hopes high on M3, and I feel they will eventually fix the mess, but please understand the disappointing from the part of the community who don't want just an aircraft that "feels like" real, but that it behaves and operates like the real thing.

Regards

I wanted to comment but after reading to the end. Sorry, I'll pass...

Well, while it is not a crucial piece of equipment for DCS "pilot", somehow this is the only module that got this type of clock totally wrong. Mi-8, MiG-15 and Ka-50 also have the same model and simulate it correctly. I also remember reporting this as an issue here and on the mantis bugtracker something like 2 years ago.

So yeah, this tells something about dev's attention to detail (or lack of it) and unwillingness to fix reported issues. It's not a rocket science to program a working clock with stopwatch and elapsed flight timer.

only plane you can drop a nuke in

Buy it. You'll be surprised, she'll grow on you. I love flying it, and the cockpit is actually easy to learn, once you get used to the overly complex weapons control systems. Most of the switches are just circuit breakers, much like the Mi-8. Not easy to fly, but rewarding none the less.

Ok, here's my status after 2 days of "ownership":

I can start the plane, taxi, takeoff, land - although I still screw up some landings. The problem is the touchdown. I set it down fast (around 350 kph) , and gently, yet I tend to collapse the gear or blow a tire, and often the nosewheel bounces back and the plane balloons into the air.

I also managed to shoot down my first AI bogeys with IRs, SARs and guns. It's insane how many switches you have to fiddle with to set up for a shot. Oh well... But the radar is actually easier to operate than I thought. No need to guess the altitude, like on the F5E. Although, its capabilities are only borderline BVR... :)

I set the curvature of the roll and pitch to 17 on my FFB2, otherwise the 21 feels too twitchy.

Next step is learning to bomb, as well as to navigate.

It seems that I'll have a chance to meet the retired commander of an ex-MIG-21 fighter wing, and I would like to be prepared with my questions in order not to waste such an opportunity :)

Landing it within its limits is by far the hardest thing to master in the MiG-21, so you're right on target, learning curve wise ;)

With how much fuel do you land? You can always burn up some more fuel before landing to ease pressure off the landing gear.

By the way, I always put armament switches in the 'proper' position during taxiing. That way, you won't lose any time during start-up and are pre-prepared for when combat commences :)

Awesome that you're able to meet a real MiG-21 pilot by the way! I would love to pick his brain and introduce him to the DCS module :)

touchdown is 320 kmph without any external stores etc..

Keep her @400 on approach

I fear that if the developers were tasked to produce a simulation capable of satisfying the subjective experience of a real world Mig 21 pilot, the cost of the module would be beyond my reach?

 

Thing is this. Dolphin, the lead FM programmer, is also a real life Mig21Bis pilot. Yeah, as in active duty combat pilot!

I don't doubt that the Mig21 has bugs that need correcting, however Im reasonably sure that its in very, VERY, good hands as far as the FM is concerned.

For those of you having trouble with landings, make sure you don't cut the throttle below a certain point on finals. Also make sure your flaps are in the correct position, otherwise the blowers won't engage. The plane sinks like a brick without blowers. When in doubt, a faster, flatter approach is better than a steeper, slower one.