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How to Land the Dora


wolle

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Probably you were fighting against what the computer was trying to assist you with and it was making a mess of things overall? With it off all the inputs are from you alone so you're in full control.

 

Very possible, but I'm not really sure what it's supposed to do when on.

One would think it has nothing to do if you are taking off correctly.



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While I haven't got the Dora (yet), on the subject of take off assistance, I had a horrible time learning the P51 up until I turned it (and auto rudder) off.

 

It's very difficult to improve if all the small mistakes are being masked by the assistance and all you're presented with is the big crashes/slides/groundloops when the situation goes belly up.

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Well, in my case and altough I had long disabled it in the p51d, and since then it became "piece-of-cake" to control, I have to confess that I did another gross mistake :-(

 

As a matter of fact, since I installed the Fw190 D9, I've been a bit disappointed :-/ It didn't feel right, as a matter of fact, it behaved in a very strange and awkward way. I wasn't believing this could really be happening with the aircraft I had so long expected to be released, and I didn't want to post any negative comments here at the forum before I could investigate exactly why it was so far from my expectations... Well - PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

 

I didn't delete the axis assignements from a Cyborg X I use the base only for additional buttons and sliders, so, my pitch, roll and yaw axis were receiving erratic inputs, all of the time, from that controller!!!!

 

Well, now that I have finally correctly configured every axis, all I can say is that this aircraft is trully SUPERB!!!!!

 

I have completed various circuits with x-wind up to 8m/s ( aprox 16 knot ), without any concern, taking off and landing smooth as silk!

 

I also completed a successful dogfight against an AI p51d :-)


Edited by jcomm

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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Call me thick but after full three days of training and countless Doras lost I can finally say I learnt how to take off. :megalol:

 

This is my first ever tail-dragger simulation and I must admit that I will never say a bad word about modern jet plane flight assist systems again. Those things do marvels for us!

The amount of micro rudder and aileron input required to get in the air safely and nicely in the Dora is (from my perspective) unbelievable. The already huge respect I had for the WWII pilots (not only German), having only one life and able to make only one fatal mistake trying to tame their aircraft has just doubled.

 

Here are the things that helped me to ask Dora out and take her for a ride:

 

1. Absolutely most crucial thing and my most common error was centring the stick too soon. When the tail wheel unlocks your already applied rudder input yaws the plane to the right and you start skidding (and skidding at these speeds is drift extravaganza!). Those that haven't figured it out yet or read it elsewhere: do not centre the stick until you reach ~150km/h. At this speed you can centre it literary in a second and nothing bad should happen. Your tail will get airborne which will only add to your yaw ability and even less rudder will be required to keep you on the runway.

 

2. Second most important thing is not to do the opposite and hold the stick back for too long. If the elevator is nailing your tail to the ground but the speed creates enough lift under the main wings the first thing that will happen to you after you lift off will be a stall.

 

3. Be prepared to counter the prop gyro effect and apply a slight roll to the right the moment your wheels leave the ground.

 

I am no expert at this but following these rules allowed me to perform 10+ consecutive successful take offs. It's a nice change to look at the crash craters from my earlier attempts from above. :smartass:

 

Two more things you might find helpful but not related to how you control the aircraft during take off:

 

1. Enable the Take-Off Assistance for the Dora and observe what kind of movement and to what extend the "AI rudder" is performing during you normal take off. It will help you realize what type of movement you need to reproduce to get in the air with no assistance.

 

2. Watch your Artificial Horizon the moment you apply thrust and try to neutralize the Turn indicator's movement with the rudder as you gain speed. The thing we don't feel flying our virtual aircraft on PCs is the g-forces the pilot would sense with his whole body. He could counter any initial side to side motion because he would feel it. We need a visual representation of that to act.

 

Sorry for a long post but I'm really happy I finally got it right and I hope my experience will help others. Dora truly is a Lady and it takes some time and practice to find a way to satisfy her... :music_whistling:

 

Happy flying! :joystick: :pilotfly:


Edited by Belphe
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I posted a thread about this issue a few days ago. All I can say is that the initial poster is correct. This plane sucks to take off in. The tail wheel does not lock no matter what you do. It pulls to one side or the other and all you can do is use the brakes to even it out. Honestly, I think the DCS needs to fix this issue as it pops up every day with another group of fliers.

Because of this issue.....I don't really care for this module and have shelved it. I spent better than 6-8 hours trying to get it to work the way the instructions say that it should. Even though I can get it up now....it still is just a 50 / 50 proposition. I crash 50% of the time. Just no fun at all.

I went back to the P-51.....................................

 

 

The DCS Dora is modeled EXACTLY like the real thing, and all but the "seat-of-the-pants" sensation you do not get when flying it, is plausibly reproduced (superbly IMO...), including the tailwheel locking mechanism.

 

I have NO PROBLEM whatsoever landing or taking off in it, even with 8m/s x-wind components ( meaning 8 m/s = 16 knot, at 90º port or starboard !!! )

 

PLEASE MAKE SURE:

 

1) You DISABLE TAKEOFF ASSIST in the General game Options ( Special Tab, and the Fw190 sub-tab )

 

2) You DO NOT FULLY DEFLECT BACK the manche, just a bit behind it's center position and ease on it as soon as you get to around 150 km/h. From there on you have to use your rudders. And YES DIFFERENTIAL BRAKING may well be required during the initial takeoff run, just like described in many texts from RW Dora pilots!

 

3) Final Approach at 220 Km/h, then flare, flare, flare.... and touch 3 point!!! From there on, manche back, just like you do for takeoff.

 

The DCS Dora needs training, just like the p51d ! Remember how you had to fight during your first takeoff and landing experiences in the Pony ?

 

This is simply another Masterpiece by ED, and thanks to a the work of one of their "magiciians" :-) - Yo-Yo!!!!

 

When I was young, before getting my degree in Math, I was really convinced that a mathematician could pick any practical problem and turn it into the beautiful language of mathematics / logic, and model and solve it. Life has made me think differently, but Yo-Yo surely brought back that belief ;-)


Edited by jcomm

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What I've done to be successful with takeoffs and landings.

 

1. Reduced saturation levels for the rudder.

2. Increased resistance in my Saitek rudders petals.

3. Get lined up and pull the stick back to lock the tail wheel.

4. Full throttle with slight right rudder immediately.

5. As soon as it starts to correct to the right start wiggling the rudder with slight left/right quick successions.

6. Drop the nose gently in the 150-180 range and then apply slight right rudder as it will pull left slightly. You may or may not have to keep using the wiggling strategy till it lifts off.

 

I use no brakes on takeoff and no assists at all.

 

Landings

Final Approach in the 250-280 range.

Once I hit the runway area try in to be in the 220 range.

Like Jcomm says reduce power and flare like crazy. The plane doesn't seems to stall very easily so don't worry about that.

Fluctuate left/right braking to slow it down or keep it straight.

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I don't know why people would need reduced saturation in this sim.

 

Did my first landing and then T/O last night. After lots of hours in DCS P-51D I have to say this is a forgiving plane to fly. Not nearly as violent torque on T/O as with the Stang and landing is a breeze.

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I posted a thread about this issue a few days ago. All I can say is that the initial poster is correct. This plane sucks to take off in. The tail wheel does not lock no matter what you do. It pulls to one side or the other and all you can do is use the brakes to even it out. Honestly, I think the DCS needs to fix this issue as it pops up every day with another group of fliers.

Because of this issue.....I don't really care for this module and have shelved it. I spent better than 6-8 hours trying to get it to work the way the instructions say that it should. Even though I can get it up now....it still is just a 50 / 50 proposition. I crash 50% of the time. Just no fun at all.

I went back to the P-51.....................................

 

Hi. I agree that taking off is really tricky. I didn't master it yet also, but i saw bunch of guys on multiplayer that doing it well.

Tail wheel lock works well for me. It locks in the current position not always stright. The second thing is that you must pull joystick all the way back. Is it posible that you have calibrated joystick in the way that it can not go all the way back. So i recommend you to check calibration.

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I posted a thread about this issue a few days ago. All I can say is that the initial poster is correct. ...

 

No, he's not correct. The tailwheel locks for the rest of us pretty well.

 

If you are serious about getting assistance for the issues you are experiencing, then post a track - it only takes a few seconds.

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Some good advice on this thread. I was really struggling and blew up like 40 times or so :noexpression: but kept on trying and coming back reading tips on here and now I can take off most of the time. There's no problem with the tail wheel, just have to keep practicing! :pilotfly:

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Take-Off assis: What does it do exactly?

 

Been trying to get FW-190 into the air but so far i only managed to do this with the take-off assist to 100% (didn't try other values -- yet). Auto rudder is set to OFF.

 

I've tried over 50 take-offs without take-off assistent because in a sim like this it's cheating. There's no assist in real life so why would there be one here?

But... like mentioned above, so far am not able to take off in the FW-190 without assistence.

 

After around 20 attempts which all failed i came here to look for some tips but i found none of these very usefull, they didn't get me airborne.

 

I always end up beside the runway, either drifting or crashing the aircraft.

 

Here's what i do:

- To help me to get the tailwheel straight i enter the plane sitting on the runway, ready for take-off (wind zero).

- Open up the throttle a little bit so the plane starts rolling, then pull back a bit on the stick to lock the tailwheel.

- Open op more throttle to catch more speed, without rudder input the plane then "always" goes to the left. Doesn't matter if the throttle is opened gradually or slammed open. The result is always the same.

- The moment i feel (seeing is better word then feeling) the aircraft starts pulling to the left, i gently give a bit of right rudder to keep it straight.

- The more speed the aircarft gets, the more there is drift to the left. I compensate this by giving a bit more right rudder.

- And then it happens. Suddenly, it turns it's nose to the right and i release the right rudder to compensate (sometimes even give left rudder) but as soon as i do that, the nose turnes more to the right (??), the left wing goes down and touches the ground and then it's over...

 

So after crash number 56 or so i decided to turn the Take-Off assistance on once more (auto rudder off) and hopla, nice smooth take-off.

 

So what does this Take-Off assistance do that i'm doing wrong?

 

 

PS: I have not much of a problem in taking the P-51D up.


Edited by Lange_666

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Been there to figure out what i might do wrong and tried a few things to no avail but: in that topic there is no word on what the assistence really does. What does it compensate? Where does it help?

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Yes its a little bit tricky but after taking off and fly her, man she is stable and a beauty. I love the D-9.

 

A real piece of art from ED!!!:thumbup:

 

I agree. I have had few successful takeoffs, and after that... wow :pilotfly: beautiful plane indeed. Now dcs has two great planes for dog fight I think that it will attract great community around this. If all planes for DCS WWII will be modeled good like this, next year will be amazing :thumbup: ED

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Like you no expert but I can get it off the ground without any assistance, so you may like to try what I do and see how you get on.

Get to the middle of runway roll forward slowly, less than 1500rpm make absolutely sure your running straight, then pull back stick all the way, lower take off flaps, apply full power 3200rpm. As speed builds move stick forward towards neutral centre also gently applying a bit of right rudder, not perfected this yet myself, but the idea is to get get the stick centred just as the tailwheel lifts and the plane still running straight guided by rudder. It will take off shortly thereafter and you may need to bank it slightly right as it does so, get wheels and flaps up and you're good to go. Good luck.

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I couldn't take off with assistance on. Thought it was off by default but it isn't. Once the assistance was off takeoffs became much easier for reasons unknown.

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It's always on by default, P51s had the same. :P

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Anyone care to answer the original question?

 

What it appears to do is damp out the yaw on the take off roll. That way you do not need to correct the roll and the plane just stays on the centreline.

 

I don't know if it does anything else, like making the plane unstick more smoothly or not.

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Here's a track of a circuit with 8m/s x-wind and turbulence set at higher levels.

 

I am not flying it by the numbers, my uncrab is lausy on landing, but still piece-of.cake!

 

Thanks for this, I didn't think of using brakes to stay straight after touch down, now I can actually land without skidding around all over the place :P

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AFAIK it acts almost as the equivalent of a modern jet's yaw dampener, the theory being that it's actually easier in the real aircraft because you can feel subtle yaw angles in the seat of your pants before you really see them and it's easier to compensate preemptively. The sim is purely visual of course, so some help isn't entirely unrealistic. I think it just adds some rudder input if it detects yaw.

 

That being said, it's in the nature of simmers to view it as some kind of cheat. So to successfully take off without it, just do what it does, and be extremely active in stopping any kind of yaw before it really develops by using the correct amount of rudder input. Don't wait, stop even the slightest twitch of yaw. In real taildraggers you can often use little 'jabs' of rudder to keep it going straight. But the bottom line is just be very active on the pedals.

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