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Spinning prevents pilot from passing out ? Not sure


Worrazen

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Hello

 

 

I just bought M2000C very recently so I'm quite unfamiliar, and I'm also not that familiar in details in general, but this caught my eye.

 

 

While the G fluctuates a bit, it's still around the high amounts, but it prevents the pilot from passing out apparently, even when it's about to pass out, just making it to spin would start making the pilot recover.

 

 

Is this correct?

 

 

 

 

I did not put this into bug reports as I am not sure, don't want to make a false report.

 

 

 

 

EDIT: Update: better video now:


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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I don't know what you're trying to prove, or what you expected.

 

First: there is no spin in this video. Spin is an asymmetrical stall. You are doing turns and rolls.

Second: you filmed your screen (probably with your phone), and not the whole screen. We can't read any G indication or your controls input.

There are free softwares to record your flight in video, or even better, you can record a "track" on debrief screen. So anyone can replay your flight.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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I don't know what you're trying to prove, or what you expected.

 

First: there is no spin in this video. Spin is an asymmetrical stall. You are doing turns and rolls.

Second: you filmed your screen (probably with your phone), and not the whole screen. We can't read any G indication or your controls input.

There are free softwares to record your flight in video, or even better, you can record a "track" on debrief screen. So anyone can replay your flight.

 

I think he meant that if you roll while pulling G's it cancels the G-lock

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I had a camera (not a phone) handy so I took it quick because I was testing some stuff not really playing. I'll redo it and update this.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Isn't the G-meter just to the right of the HUD block that's visible in this video?

 

 

Yes that's what I was balling for aiming the camera, I wasn't able to put the camera further away that's why it's so "zoomed" in as I didn't had the tripod handy at the time, but I should have checked if that was really G-meter more, I was assuming, now with the response here I'm less sure so I'll go back in and double check.

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Activate au AA weapon and the G read out will be in the HUD.

 

But since control surfaces are "elevons" (pitch + roll at the same time), if you mix roll and pitch input you can't max perform on both axis at the same time.

 

If you're pulling on the stick then add roll, it's possible you lower the load factor.


Edited by jojo

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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I can't recreate it so far, the G maxes out at 6.0, barely gets over, back then I was doing like between 8-10 on a normal turn.

I'm not sure what kind of mission I played or what circumstances, I know I didn't set much of anything up, not fuel, I think it was one of the built in missions.

 

 

EDIT:

I was able to recreate now the behavior ... it's all defaults, I didn't click anything, I just speed up to +500 and it works, clean install since 2 days ago on a new larger SSD that hopefull will work with the motherboard's SATA plug issues, I didn't do any modding or texture stuff this time around, not that I did anything to M2000C before, but it's clean now, and wait, it's DCS Release , NOT Open Beta.

 

It could be due to some G-Limiter setting in the aircraft? I was wondering about the fuel amounts too.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think that the G indicator may get stuck and infact it is not that high, watch the video carefully, it hovers around 9, sustained it's enough for passout, yes it's falling down as soon as I start spinning, I only managed to hit the mark twice. It seems like it has to be very precise. I was playing with keyboard at the time with default arrow keys, while I was trying with the joystick, it's much much harder to recreate with joystick apparently.

 

 

I have one Track that I managed to do it, it's at the end after 3rd crash, sustained +9 without any sign of passout, if I had more altitude it could go on virtually indefinitely.

M2000C_SpinG10NoPassout_Attempt1.trk


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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I was able to recreate it perfectly now. But it seems like it's all about the keyboard and maybe the correct pattern of controls. Track files attached below.

M2000C_SpinG10NoPassout_Attempt2.trk

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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I don't know what are you trying to prove ?

 

I told you, when you mix roll and pitch input you don't have full authority/ deflection on both axis. (Pitch has priority though).

 

This is why real Mirage 2000 pilots are instructed to avoid mixing pitch and roll input when they want to max perform the jet.

Mirage fanatic !

I7-7700K/ MSI RTX3080/ RAM 64 Go/ SSD / TM Hornet stick-Virpil WarBRD + Virpil CM3 Throttle + MFG Crosswind + Reverb G2.

Flickr gallery: https://www.flickr.com/gp/71068385@N02/728Hbi

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Allright, I was never talking about the controls, or I just wasn't clear enough.

I was wondering why doesn't the pilot pass out at the sustained Gs when spinning, but will start to pass out at lower Gs when not spinning.

 

But did you actually play back the track that I provided?

 

Fraps and/or FFmpeg is kinda bugging on me. I made fraps videos before without problem, it could be DCS, dunno, Fraps is still same, but i used a new FFmpeg version.

But an older video had compiled fine, now it wouldn't even encode, it would just error out, maybe I will have to try an older version, no idea yet. So I made another camera video.

 

 

Again: So if I maintain close to 10G and I make the aircraft to wobble-spin, I make a super human body capable of indefinite sustained 10G. If I stop spinning and G falls down to 9 then I start to pass out again.

 

That just doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter what computer controls I'm using to make this, as long as this "crossing-the-controls" like this is also possible on a real aircraft, and that the behavior seen in the F2 view would be consistent with real world behavior.

 

https://hypertextbook.com/facts/1998/PhillipAndriyevsky.shtml


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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Best thing to do is watch it back using Tacview and see what actual Gs the pilot was experiencing and not what the HUD readout says.

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Best thing to do is watch it back using Tacview and see what actual Gs the pilot was experiencing and not what the HUD readout says.

 

 

The HUD readout is consistent with the cockpit indicator, if one is wrong then they're both wrong.

 

Due to the TacView licensing I will postpone installing it until I have more time with DCS where I can actually make a good use out of the TacView free trial period for the advanced features.

 

It's not that necessary actually, I'm just reporting a bug, the devs can now use the track to figure out the details if necessary.

 

 

 

 

Update: better video now:

 


Edited by Worrazen

Modules: A-10C I/II, F/A-18C, Mig-21Bis, M-2000C, AJS-37, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, P-47, FC3, SC, CA, WW2AP, CE2. Terrains: NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf, Syria

 

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