Force feedback as separate add-on module

The force feedback support on the F-14 is superb! It is by far the best ffb support available in DCS. I have an old Microsoft Sidewinder 2 that I modded by replacing the grip and adding an extension. Flying the F-14 with it has been wonderful. I wish there was more noticeable increase of resistance with G-force, and accelerating "ridges" feel while taking off on the runway, but that's nit-picky compared to the total absence of ffb support in most other planes..

I would love to see the same FFB support in other planes but I think it is very very low on ED's list of priorities, given the small amount of people with FFB joysticks. It's a chicken and egg problem because until more planes/games support FFB, manufacturers are not likely to make FFB joysticks and customers are not likely to buy them.

So my suggestion to Heatblur would be to extract their FFB support as an add-on module that would work on any plane. I would definitely pay for that and I'm pretty sure anyone with a FFB joystick would too. Not sure it's technically feasible but since telemetry is exported via LUA scripts, it seems like it would be doable to have an adapter that reads the telemetry and converts that to FFB inputs.

I would love to hear Heatblur's opinion on this. And anyone else's opinions of course!

This is an interesting idea. Maybe I'll explore if it's feasible, not sure I'd even do it regardless.

Consumer grade FFB devices just can't provide anything near the required force to feel realistic. In order to get something close to reasonable we pretty much have to fully saturate the Sidewinder's motors even at 1G. It would be nice to be able to increase force per G but there's noting left in the motors. I also consider the F-14 FFB model to be the bare minimum, but anything more complex isn't possible in terms of precision and force needed from the motors. The trim feel is nice though, trimming on spring stick feels very awkward. I'm optimistic that this may change in the future now that those FFB patents have expired.

I would pay for such an add-on. I too have the mighty MS FFB2, with F16 grip (the plastic one), FFB2 sensors linked into Bodnar board for higher X Y resolution. Perfect setup for me, after many years of tinkering.

Regards,

Mac

This is an interesting idea. Maybe I'll explore if it's feasible, not sure I'd even do it regardless.

Thanks for looking!! FFB add-on module would be awesome! Let us know what you find if you get a chance to look into it.

I agree that consumer grade FFB devices can't provide enough force to be fully realistic but they do add a lot of immersion compared to spring sticks. The trim feel, the shaking when stalling, or in turbulences and or at high speed are very valuable. I can think of other potential feedback effects such as slight vibrations when gears are coming in/out, or when flaps are moved, or when weapons are fired (especially the gun). Also, some kind of ridge effect when on the ground that accelerates when taking off. Those feedback effects are not purely realistic as they would not necessarily be felt on the stick in a real plane, but any kind of feedback that helps you "feel" the plane is great for immersion in my opinion.

I do understand the issue with not being able to increase the force per G due to the limitation of the motors that are already maxed out at 1G. Shame! Perhaps in the future as you say.

I also own a ms ffb2 stick and it's awesome with the f14!

I don't know how familiar you guys are with racing sims, but a couple of titles have the option to see the ffb output on a bar which changes colour when the maximum ffb has arrived on your wheel. So you turn down the ffb strength till the bar only reaches the maximum on a given level(like hitting a curb or a big bump in the road). This would allow somehow to get a g based ffb stick force. But it must be clear to everybody that the stick would feel pretty sloppy and lifeless around 1g and would only reach 100% when you go for 9-10g turns. This would also work for professional sticks which could achieve a real 1:1 stick force.

I would definitely be willing to pay for a FFB add on!

What would be even better, is if this would not make use of the MS Directinput api.

Since this api is al most 20 years old and has not been updated for a long time. (Direct X 8.0 2000,if I'm not mistaken)

My suggestions would be to come up with an addon, that would have native support for arduino boards (leonardo,etc.).

From a commercial perspective, looking at some crowdfunding initiatives, with the intent to produce "low costs" FFB devices, always ended up costing well over $1000,-.

In my humble opinion, there is not enough people that would be willing or ableto pay the steep prices that such FFB units would cost.

However giving people the option to make their own FFB sick based on arduinos and DIY materials according to their on budget, would open up a whole new market, in my humble opinion.

There are numerous examples of DIY FFB wheels and motion platforms for racing sims, why not invest in a platform like say DCS BIOS and expanding that with FFB option.

Or just build a new software suite from scratch. 

A lot of these private initiatives start out as DIY programming projects when guys are still in school or just as a hobby project, but end up not being developed beyond a certain stage, because the developer has a change in their private situation (starting jobs, bad health, lost interest).

So If someone would develop a commercial FFB software addon for DCS or any other simulator for that matter, that would allow me to build my own flight control hardware and/or even a motion platform and allow me to interface the hardware tot DCS using Arduinos, I would be very willing to pay for that.

And I think there would be a lot of people in the DCS community willing to pay for that as well. 

Just my humble opinion!

I also use an MSFF2, and you will find most of the aircraft in FC3 have FFB implemented, so does the KA50,  fairly sure I remember the A10C and A10C II has it as well, missing sadly from the F18 and F16 tho, I have put a request for this very thing up in the DCS 2.5 wishlist actually.

Well, thing is, the 16 doesn't have stick loading or any feel spring system its full Fly By Wire. 

The 18 does have an artificial feel system and it's surprising that isn't modeled given ED managed to model FFB in the F-5 so well.