This all for Viper updates?

The large (silent) majority is just happy and proud of what you do for us every day!

+1

Dear DCS developers,

The large (silent) majority is just happy and proud of what you do for us every day!

 

hear, hear!

Dear DCS developers,

 

it hurts my soul to see the hostility you are sometimes confronted with.

 

 

I absolutely agree that insults/hostility etc is unnacceptable.

 

I have the feeling that you can never please some of these people!

This is where I disagree. While there is certainly impatience, much of that is caused by ED poor communications to date, and chopping and changing what is an 'acceptable' release state, in quantity and quality, and by going against previously stated positions which themselves were used to justify/downplay concerns.

 

The large (silent) majority is just happy and proud of what you do for us every day!

 

Going to be that person who says how do you know it is a silent majority who are positive, vs a silent majority who are negative? None of us can speak for anyone but ourselves.

 

I am hopeful that the recent improvements in communication are sustained, and not just being used to ameliorate concerns around the F16 launch - but it is beholden to ED to do better in their workload estimation, planning, communication, clarity of and sticking to a 'baseline' quantity and quality of feature at launch.

 

This is where I disagree. While there is certainly impatience, much of that is caused by ED poor communications to date, and chopping and changing what is an 'acceptable' release state, in quantity and quality, and by going against previously stated positions which themselves were used to justify/downplay concerns.

 

Is the communication really that bad? I'm not a software developer myself, but I'm responsible for demanding multi-million projects. The difficulty lies in the complexity of the task. We all want to have as much information as possible in advance, yes we urge the developers on this platform to respond. As so often in life and no matter in which branch, surprises, problems and changes await those who are responsible. Not everything can always go according to plan and that's exactly what some people come across here in the forum, because originally A was promised and B was made. My only concern is to show some understanding and not to blame everything on bad communication or faulty strategies / developments. Which of us is already free of mistakes?

 

Going to be that person who says how do you know it is a silent majority who are positive, vs a silent majority who are negative? None of us can speak for anyone but ourselves.

 

I totally agree with you! I am not entitled to speak for the rest of the forum. In this respect I have probably expressed myself somewhat unhappily - it was only meant well. However, I was often allowed to lead conferences with numerous visitors and have always had the experience that those who see problems in a matter were much louder and more dominant than the agreeing (silent) rest. So I took the liberty to use my experience for this forum as well. Please don't hold it against me...

[...]

The large (silent) majority is just happy and proud of what you do for us every day!

[...]

 

So much THIS!

I'm sure the Devs know that those who really support them are the silent ones, but posts like this certainly do help to keep the morale up :joystick:

It’s been almost 2 months since we had a stable update. I think the beta people can quit whining.

It’s been almost 2 months since we had a stable update. I think the beta people can quit whining.

 

And why is that? Because the Viper has been launched so bare boned and with so many issues that they by neccessity need to hold back on updating stable until its got to a point that is 'acceptable'.

 

If it had stayed in the oven for another few months, then stable could have been updated more frequently.

 

So for me, the length of time stable has gone without an update is absolutely a consequence of releasing the Viper far too early so people complaining that the Viper isn't being updated frequently enough with decent sized steps forwards are in fact also (in effect) agreeing with those complaining of a lack of updates to stable, and vice versa!

And why is that? Because the Viper has been launched so bare boned and with so many issues that they by neccessity need to hold back on updating stable until its got to a point that is 'acceptable'.

 

 

Proposal to all those for whom development is not fast enough. Uninstall the Viper and only reload it when it is stable. In the meantime just pretend it hasn't been released and please be happy if it's stable with more features.

 

Would the Viper be further developed today if DCS had held it back? All speculation! I don't believe it and find the mostly constructive feedback of the community helpful to further develop the aircraft.

 

At the weekend I'm thinking about what's wrong in my life, that I still have so much fun with the Viper... :D

I'm not sure why someone would buy into a beta program and then not use the beta version?

The ones that now realize they can't handle the beta issues... of which there seems to be a few.

Proposal to all those for whom development is not fast enough. Uninstall the Viper and only reload it when it is stable. In the meantime just pretend it hasn't been released and please be happy if it's stable with more features.

 

Apart from that doesn't work in Multiplayer as you are *impacted* by the Viper which on launch had no damage model and no IFF.

 

That is then down to each server owner to resist the begging of people who want it now and damn anyone else (thankfully I think they all resisted until those were in!) but note that the countermeasures won't rearm in MP - they need to reslot and start up EACH TIME. And if it's a night mission? good luck.

 

Equally - it has impacted the Hornet with a slow down of development. It really should have stayed in the oven and come out later, or be in a closed alpha instead of open beta.

Dear DCS developers,

 

The large (silent) majority is just happy and proud of what you do for us every day!

 

 

+1

I can't hear it anymore, all this whining! And the last position is always "...but i'm affacted by the F-16 in MP(damage model...) even if i don't use it..." blah blah blah.

 

THAT is not the problem of ED! Use the stable version and server that use the stable version or if it must be BETA then complain to the operator/mission creator of your every day MP server that this guy should remove the F-16 from the server/mission -> YOUR problem solved!

 

But there are people enjoying it/who want to test and find bugs in SP AND MP "...countermeasures won't rearm..."

 

All you do is literally complaining about that you yourself are not able to use the software branches like they are intended to and blaming the DEV for your own incapability! That is crazy if you think about it!

 

Have fun roasting me :beer:

I can't hear it anymore, all this whining!

 

Then you are more than welcome to not listen, just as you advise us to not use OB.

 

And the last position is always "...but i'm affacted by the F-16 in MP(damage model...) even if i don't use it..." blah blah blah.

 

THAT is not the problem of ED!

fundamentally- yes it is. They launched it without a damage model. That doesn't just impact MP by the way - it also impacts your use of it in SP.

 

Use the stable version and server that use the stable version or if it must be BETA then complain to the operator/mission creator of your every day MP server that this guy should remove the F-16 from the server/mission -> YOUR problem solved!

 

Thankfully - most of the decent MP servers did prevent it while it had no Damage model, but IIRC they allowed it once it had one, but before the IFF was provided.

 

All you do is literally complaining about that you yourself are not able to use the software branches like they are intended to and blaming the DEV for your own incapability! That is crazy if you think about it!

 

Have fun roasting me :beer:

 

I am well within my rights as a customer to point out issues with the model that ED use for their development when it combines with the status at release of models to have an impact on my ability to enjoy their product. There are ways they could ameliorate this (either through closed testing, or releasing later, better developed) but at this point they have chosen not to, as is their right, but I should not be expected to be silent about the impacts it has. No roasting required - I can remain polite.

You are and there's a forum to do that.

Unfortunately, I can't check at this time, but can anyone confirm if the tgp and the hud TD box sync issue has been fixed? It's already been reported, but they closed the thread. Thanks!

I am well within my rights as a customer to point out issues with the model that ED use for their development when it combines with the status at release of models to have an impact on my ability to enjoy their product.

 

A wise man once told me that people who have nothing else in their lives are at least right and that is why it is so important to them to always be right. I very much hope for your sake that he is wrong.

 

If we had, as for example with the purchase of a car, the selection from dozens offerers, then I could understand you still a little bit (even if I would express myself nevertheless differently).

 

But here we have enthusiasts sitting who provide us with the only reasonable hardcore flight simulation and manage to constantly supply us with wonderful new aircraft over the last years. And take a look back at how many of them really look excellent today. So I'm thinking twice about demotivating the developers with my choice of words because they seem to do so much wrong, or I'll give them some praise to show that their work is valued.

 

@Arctander - You are in the right and I don't want to take it away from you. If I read your other posts (e.g. Hornet), a common thread of detailed complaints against ED runs through your posts. It would be a great sign from you, if you would announce here and now what you like about ED and DCS. There is certainly a developer who on Monday will be all the more pleased to make the solution to your / our problems ....

 

I think this accurately depicts the peopke whining about ''their experience''.

pls add specular map

 

@Arctander - You are in the right and I don't want to take it away from you. If I read your other posts (e.g. Hornet), a common thread of detailed complaints against ED runs through your posts. It would be a great sign from you, if you would announce here and now what you like about ED and DCS. There is certainly a developer who on Monday will be all the more pleased to make the solution to your / our problems ....

 

Not sure why I would need to do that but ok...

 

DCS is the *ONLY* high fidelity Jet combat and Helo sim.

 

As to positives:

 

The feeling I get when flying and fighting is not comparable to any other gaming experience I've had. (I use IL2 for the same feeling for WWII). As such I've spent a lot of money - both for ED and peripherals to enjoy that feeling. I fly in VR with a RiftS, Warbrd Base/WH Stick, WH throttle, 3 MFDs, MFG crosswinds in a custom made simpit.... bonus sleeping dog.

 

 

This is simpit V3 and is built so I can pack it away easily under my desk. In a month or so when I have more room I'll be building a permanent V4...

 

I love the Hormuz map, and the MP servers like BF that let me fly and fight against others. (Single player is of very little interest to me). SRS really helps there - ED are working on their own VOIP - I hope it isn't a disappointment in comparison so it can bring more people into comms.

 

Flying the Hornet and working with the systems brings a satisfaction when I make a kill that is unmatched in any other experience in gaming I have had.

 

The modelling and texturing is such that on a number of occasions I've tried to lean on the edge of my cockpit! That level of immersion is incomparable. I wanted to be a pilot in the RAF when I was really young, sadly my eyes were crap so it never could happen.

 

I also really enjoy flying the Huey - that's a lovely module. Just tooling around Dubai at low level is great fun.

 

I've also really enjoyed the ability to make my own skins (if only I can see them!) - my current favourite is a Hornet WWII RAF desert skin using PRU blue underbelly, with sand yellow and dark earth top. Having an 'in DCS' simple editor would be really nice.

 

Were ED to fail/go out of business that would be a large part of my hobby time spend and enjoyment lost, which is why I am so passionate about the downsides of the current model of EA and specifically F16/F18 interplay. I fear there is something fundamentally wrong if they are (as Nick said) predicated on EA modules to stay 'profitable' and the business model needs to change.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Arctander

Arctander, I think we are all on the same page here.

 

As a kid I loved planes and played simulations like Strike Commander, Birds of Prey, Comanche and so on. But all of a sudden the military sims just died.

 

I found out by YouTube that there is something like DCS. And I'm so happy and thankfully that ED "reanimated" my, or let's better say, our hobby.

 

And while I agree that surely there's not everything perfect, I just think that all those complaining and whining threads are not making anything better. In fact, I believe that it takes time away from the actual development, because every time they want to fix something they have to react to this whining and change their plans. That for sure slows down the development as well.

 

I fully understand if people are impatience and they want to get the best out of their hobby, but complaining and even ranting (like some do) isn't making the problem any better.

 

Be here, be patient, report bugs if you find them and just be happy that ED is supporting a market that was dead already. At least that is my oppinion, whilst fully respecting yours.

 

I fully understand if people are impatience and they want to get the best out of their hobby, but complaining and even ranting (like some do) isn't making the problem any better.

 

Be here, be patient, report bugs if you find them and just be happy that ED is supporting a market that was dead already. At least that is my oppinion, whilst fully respecting yours.

 

Thanks for the note. I agree we all want the best - I just think that without consumer pressure, my fear is that ED will not be 'forced' to improve/move with the times and consumer sentiment.

 

Look at Kodak. They INVENTED the Digital camera - but didn't invest in it to protect their film business. I fear that ED are entering their own 'Kodak' moment - and if the community that uses their product doesn't provide the impetus for them to improve, that they will sit on their laurels and in the end not make the business wide improvements required for them to prosper.

Not sure why I would need to do that but ok...

 

DCS is the *ONLY* high fidelity Jet combat and Helo sim.

 

As to positives:

 

...

 

Arctander - you saved my day!!

 

Thank you very much for your wonderful post. It's nice to read how much fun you have with DCS. And I read many parallels.

 

I applied to the Luftwaffe, had top marks and a pilot's seat almost certainly, they noticed a heart defect and my life's dream burst. I had the chance to get my private pilot's license in early years, which is a lot of fun, but I am missing the A/A and the A/G mode in the Piper :cry: :D

 

My rig looks a bit like yours, although mine is by far not as well equipped as yours (only TM Warthog and MFD, old CH pedals that are changed at Christmas and Rift S). Imagine I just moved a few months ago and my big dream is a 6DoF platform. It just lacks time and money, but at some point I want to realize it.

 

And yes - I can totally understand one point with you. I myself have so little time (max. 1 evening per week) to play DCS and the worst thing that can happen is when something does not work. This refers to system- or hardware-related problems. As far as the airplanes are concerned, we are all free to fly those that work or are further developed. In this respect, it seems many of us want to protect the youngest babies of the developers...

 

Believe me or not, but you just collected an incredible amount of sympathy points from me. I take my hat off to you, especially that you showed us all how much fun you can have here. Great!

Edited November 9, 2019 by MadMonty