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This video said everything !


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This video needed to be made ages ago, but at least someone stepped up and made it now. Hopefully it doesn't fall on deaf ears in the long run.

 

As far as those saying they don't get why it was made...or disagree with the "tone"... folks can still enjoy something like DCS but also want it to improve and get frustrated when it doesn't seem like they are being heard, especially when they contributing to that company with their dollars. This shouldn't be that hard of a concept to grasp ...

 

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"Straighten up and fly right"

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Great history lesson and good challenge(s) to the developers of this amazing simulator! I'd be very happy if they never released another aircraft module and just focused on completing the ED non-third party modules (Hornet, Viper, etc.). Then, watch them really lean in to:

 

1. Dynamic-like campaign (or their best version of it, which might be better than other sims).

2. Better graphics card/processor utilization for better performance.

3. More dynamic/realistic weather simulation.

 

Regarding the video, I love Nick Grey's response here from a YouTube comment:

 

Dear Sir, thank you for your honest and passionate view on DCS. I was the founder of the company with Igor back in 1991. I feel that we have come quite a way since then but do admit we still have a very long way to go. Our 125 staff are great guys and girls with some who have been in the company since the very beginning. They are dedicated to doing their very best in what can only be qualified as a complex niche market sector. We will continue to do everything possible to be worthy of higher praise in the future. Hopefully, you might be one of those who will help us get there.... Many thanks and kind regards, Nick

 

Keep up the good work, ED and Team!


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This video needed to be made ages ago, but at least someone stepped up and made it now.

 

I respectfully disagree.

 

First of all, I'm fairly certain that the people who are most aware of what could be improved are the guys and gals at Eagle Dynamics themselves. And I'm absolutely certain that they are working, day by day, to actually implement as much of this as they can.

 

And honestly: they are doing a stellar job IMHO.

 

Yes, there is lots I would like to see improved in DCS. There are bugs that drive me nuts (switching a + and a - would seem to explain some problem here, taking into account ground elevation would seem to explain a problem there - the fix is probably a one-liner in many cases). I strongly believe DCS should receive an extended period of bug fixing rather than seeing the release of yet another module.

 

But I also understand the reality of running a business, fixing some of the most important problems while at the same time implementing long term advancements. And what *is* important when there is so much to be done? Is it what is demanded very vocally on a forum? On YouTube? Is it something that seems to have a direct impact on sales? Is it something that the developers have been asking to do in order to improve the medium term development with no visible outcome in the short term?

 

But, you know, what I actually find offensive is when this type of criticism is labeled "stepping up", when the *actual* improvements find little mention. "Yeah, it looks great, but..."

 

I've been flying DCS since the Ka-50 (version 1.0.1C, IIRC), and for a solid 10 years in a row there have been so many improvements... just the other day I skipped through a bunch of old screenshots. DCS Ka-50 was a great sim back then, and I realize many people were put off by Black Shark 2 and the fact that we had to pay for it. But I *could* have purchased nothing but the Warthog, and kept on enjoying this very aircraft in two perfectly up-to-date terrains (if the A-10C was purchased during the Beta) in an ever evolving graphics engine, Singleplayer and Multiplayer, with a free cockpit upgrade on the way, in an environment that is so fantastically beautiful that I sometimes ask myself if real pilots have the same brilliant sensation of flying.

 

TL;DR

 

Yeah, I believe there is stuff to be done, and lots of it. But when someone makes it sound as if we, the players, need to tell ED how to conduct their business so they don't sit on their lazy butts and waste our money, that's when I think people have the memory of a fly, which is even weirder when they can tell the history of this sim much further back than I could.

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Actually I'm glad I stumbled across this post and wasted 30min of my life with that video. I've been gaming since Falcon 1.0, and it brought back memories for sure of how far it all has come, but it also rang very true on the things that are broken and just flat out missing (dynamic campaign as #1). But really the whole core engine, AI, missiles, ground troops, damage model, EW (especially EW) it a lot of it needs serious fixing in one way or another. Then again ED gets a lot right, the planes and FM's are great but again, the overall context of it all needs some serious work. I also think the F16 went out the door a bit too early. I mean I like it, but seriously no WP editing? I mean its crigne worthy.

 

The other thing I found pretty telling is the numbers of folks not here but rather on hoggit. I'm on both so I don't think its 1:1 but I do think if you alienate lets say 10-30% of your player base, which may be the case, yeah you have some serious PR issues. And really I'd say those people don't want to be alienated in a great many cases. They want to be listened and responded to because they want DCS to be something better than it currently is. And overall I don't think ED is bad about it compared to say certain 3rd party devs, but they could step up their game.

 

On the "free game" and getting people into it I don't really think its a big deal, you can buy one of the cheaper modules for a few bucks, especially if they are on sale and go play air cowboy, maybe ED should make the F5 the "cheap" paid module to get people hooked, IDK. I'm not on the poor new guy demographic, but I can relate having been young once. Then again when I'm dropping 70 bucks on a module a few times a year and the core engine is what it is, I wonder.


Edited by Harlikwin

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blah blah blah as usual on any forum

 

Your "Finnishness" is great :thumbup:

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I respectfully disagree.

 

First of all, I'm fairly certain that the people who are most aware of what could be improved are the guys and gals at Eagle Dynamics themselves. And I'm absolutely certain that they are working, day by day, to actually implement as much of this as they can.

 

And honestly: they are doing a stellar job IMHO.

 

Yes, there is lots I would like to see improved in DCS. There are bugs that drive me nuts (switching a + and a - would seem to explain some problem here, taking into account ground elevation would seem to explain a problem there - the fix is probably a one-liner in many cases). I strongly believe DCS should receive an extended period of bug fixing rather than seeing the release of yet another module.

 

But I also understand the reality of running a business, fixing some of the most important problems while at the same time implementing long term advancements. And what *is* important when there is so much to be done? Is it what is demanded very vocally on a forum? On YouTube? Is it something that seems to have a direct impact on sales? Is it something that the developers have been asking to do in order to improve the medium term development with no visible outcome in the short term?

 

But, you know, what I actually find offensive is when this type of criticism is labeled "stepping up", when the *actual* improvements find little mention. "Yeah, it looks great, but..."

 

I've been flying DCS since the Ka-50 (version 1.0.1C, IIRC), and for a solid 10 years in a row there have been so many improvements... just the other day I skipped through a bunch of old screenshots. DCS Ka-50 was a great sim back then, and I realize many people were put off by Black Shark 2 and the fact that we had to pay for it. But I *could* have purchased nothing but the Warthog, and kept on enjoying this very aircraft in two perfectly up-to-date terrains (if the A-10C was purchased during the Beta) in an ever evolving graphics engine, Singleplayer and Multiplayer, with a free cockpit upgrade on the way, in an environment that is so fantastically beautiful that I sometimes ask myself if real pilots have the same brilliant sensation of flying.

 

TL;DR

 

Yeah, I believe there is stuff to be done, and lots of it. But when someone makes it sound as if we, the players, need to tell ED how to conduct their business so they don't sit on their lazy butts and waste our money, that's when I think people have the memory of a fly, which is even weirder when they can tell the history of this sim much further back than I could.

 

To each there own. We agree to disagree.

 

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"Straighten up and fly right"

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Every word say in this video (

) stands for my personal feeling about what is happen in DCS. For me is clear, no more money to DCS until you guys came out with solutions for topics that have years in the hot line of the bugs, and inside a one year window. You think that, just because we are enthusiasts of military aviation we will take your underqualified early access module?, well, not my money, not my support, not anymore.
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He has some interesting points but calling things a "Joke", "a pathetic release", "anti-consumer" and "a hideous release" discredits him in my opinion.
I agree with this. Its "killing me softly" kind of thing. It could discoureging new player and stir away casual player. Guess what no new mod or even new Hifi combat sim for us as we already in niche market.

 

Just my 2 cents.... feel free to disagree.

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power. - Lao Tze

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Thanks for posting the link.

 

The vid seems nicely done, but I had to rage quit when the guy complained that the free DCS World doesn't even allow Air-to-Air combat and was limited to a ground-pounder and an unarmed trainer only.

 

Sorry, but that is just the most ludicrous thing to complain about, I really don't care what other conclusions the guy draws afterwards.

 

Anyway, it's good to know that the ED team are more resistant to those remarks and actually try to improve the game based on the more valid criticism.

 

Well matter of point of view. He says himself that in a way he doesn't care that much about this aspect, myself too. He is spoting a logic from ED that he doesn't understand. Think about it :

 

Digital COMBAT Simulator.

 

As he says the Su 25T it make sense. But an unarmed TP51 ... ? The FC3 Mig29 or something lile that maybe would be more logic isnt ? Remember that DCS is presented as a F2P plateform.

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Well matter of point of view. He says himself that in a way he doesn't care that much about this aspect, myself too. He is spoting a logic from ED that he doesn't understand. Think about it :

 

Digital COMBAT Simulator.

 

As he says the Su 25T it make sense. But an unarmed TP51 ... ? The FC3 Mig29 or something lile that maybe would be more logic isnt ? Remember that DCS is presented as a F2P plateform.

 

Says the guy who is part of a virtual acrobatics team ;)

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Nothing gets removed unless it goes against forums rules, concerns over ED choices is not against rules, if you feel you have had something removed in error, then please PM me or someone else on the team, that is the way it should be.

 

Well i can give you a very simple exemple. Early begining of the Hornet dev when Wags was doing a live video about it. I asked very nicely in the chat how this would affect the fixing progress of the coregame and why they choosen to go for the Hornet now (3rd aprty could focus on aircrafts) before fixing it. Instant banned from the live ... ?

 

So please, do not tell me at ED no one never banned anyone because of not agreeing with what you guys do. It's well known, we are a lot. But again as i said it's been improving the few last months/years, so looking foward to see the futur of DCS and ED :thumbup:

 

 

Saying the weather system is a joke is not helpful, saying the weather system could be improved, then describing what you want to see in those improvements is much more helpful, and much easier for me to convey to the team.

 

Let's be honest 2s. All the problems he spoke about have been raised and explained on the forum multiple times, even all thoses that he didn't spoke about. Since years they are raised non stop. So almost a decade later now (for the older bugs), yes we it's normal to say sorry but this, is a joke, or this is ridiculous.


Edited by Pâte

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Says the guys that doesn't know that i was yet recently part of a virtual squadron too ;)

 

So you should know even more than most, even though it is a Digital Combat System, there is so much more to it than that, the TF-51D really shows off the WWII FM, and gives you a good taste of what to expect.

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So you should know even more than most, even though it is a Digital Combat System, there is so much more to it than that, the TF-51D really shows off the WWII FM, and gives you a good taste of what to expect.

 

Of course there is, i didn't said i agree with that specific comment. I'm just saying if we take 2s to understand the point of view of X-CHECK, yes his comment can make sense. It's maybe not that ludicrous so killing his entire video that has some very good points just on that ... it's a bit over the top.

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Well i can give you a very simple exemple. Early begining of the Hornet dev when Wags was doing a live video about it. I asked very nicely in the chat how this would affect the fixing progress of the coregame and why they choosen to go for the Hornet now (3rd aprty could focus on aircrafts) before fixing it. Instant banned from the live ... ?

 

So please, do not tell me at ED no one never banned anyone because of not agreeing with what you guys do. It's well known, we are a lot. But again as i said it's been improving the few last months/years, so looking foward to see the futur of DCS and ED :thumbup:

 

I would be happy to look at an example from the forums where a user was banned for constructive and mature feedback. I ask for this a lot, I have not seen many, and those that I have seen have had their bans reversed, and when we talk bans, bans are permanent, suspensions are another thing, even if you use the worst language, chances are you were suspended and not banned.

 

For YouTube, I do not know, I don't recall that, but I do know chats are fast and furious during live streams, it simply could have been a mistake, if you think you were wronged, why wouldn't you reach out to someone? I know when I am moderating a live chat, I generally will time out a user or delete comment with poor language, rarely do we ban there as well.

 

The whole "don't ban me dude" thing has really just taken on a life of its own and far exceeded what is actually happening.

 

Let's be honest 2s. All the problems he spoke about have been raised and explained on the forum multiple times, even all thoses that he didn't spoke about. Since years they are raised non stop. So almost a decade later now (for the older bugs), yes we it's normal to say sorry but this, is a joke, or this is ridiculous.

 

Communication is a tough thing, especially on mixed nationality forums such as this, a word that is offensive to you might not be to the next guy, and Vice Versa. It's natural in most conversations for people to tune out when you start insulting or using degrading or down talking to someone. If you communicate in a clean and mature or professional manner, it will get noticed more.

 

There are a lot of things that take time, some are not bugs, some are features, some are things that have to be redone, or written from scratch, it's easy to sit back and say, gawd they are ignoring use and not fixing stuff, but its not always the case, the biggest issue we have right now is not communicating enough about what we are doing, we tend to hold on to info until its close to release, scared to say anything in case something goes south and we have to start again and take another approach. That type of communication needs to be addressed for sure. ED is full of very passionate people, and they want to create the best product possible, we can always improve as can everyone. And we are working on improving.

 

Anyways, case in point, this thread exists, we could have very easily deleted it and not dealt with it, there are many other threads like this one way or another. So the conclusion that we delete all negative opinions and insta ban anyone not happy with us is just slightly exaggerated, and I say again, I will review any ban, or any suspension points someone deemed wrongly awarded, I will even review ones rightly earned, if that person wants to meet us in the middle.

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Let's clarify a little point.

 

Persons such as X-CHECK, Jabber, people sharing their point of view such as me and many other. We are not looking for a confrontation. We are not here to kill ED by pleasure and say look how bad it is run away quick they are not working. If we didn't enjoyed DCS we would not be there. X-CHECK said everything, the problem is that we love DCS as much as we hate it.

 

The pleasure of a flight can be ruined in few minutes airborn because of suffering form years/months old problems not fixed. We have the feeling that problems are just stacking on each other. And releasing new unfinished features seems to only making things worse. Adding new problems and slowing down any solving.

 

We understand, it's hard to announce a project and having to deal with a lot of things to do, and people asking non stop for a release (maybe projects are announced too soon ?). We understand ED need to make money to keep running. But the stacking of problems killing the experience is reaching such a point ... i can be very wrong but i would be curious to see for exemple where would be the coregame now if all the ressources puted into the Hornet for exemple, were placed into the coregame. Maybe the F2P coregame is not working ? Maybe it need more ressources than a free plateform can receive ? Maybe selling now DCS coregame could unlock more ressources to dedicate to it ? I don't know and i wont pretend that i know. But i'm afraid of seeing very important things never fixed or in another 10 years. As well as coregame key features never added.

As X-CHECK said, you are doing wonderful aircraft simulation, but what about all the rest, what about the coregame. Because having the best plane possible in a dead environment is sadly quickly useless. And the environment seems to have a massive lack of progress since years now.

 

 

So again we are not here to kill ED. But at a point it seems that a kick in the ass and reminder to make ED open the eyes seems required. I got my ass kicked many times in my profession, sometimes with much harder words that "this is a joke". But always for the same reason, i was blind on my mistakes. And kicking my ass made me open the eyes.

 

So yes more videos like that pop, yes more people encourage to don't purchase anymore anything from ED until we see focus on the coregame and no more futur promises / futur aircrafts. This is the only way we can us kick your ass.


Edited by Pâte

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Anyways, case in point, this thread exists, we could have very easily deleted it and not dealt with it, there are many other threads like this one way or another. So the conclusion that we delete all negative opinions and insta ban anyone not happy with us is just slightly exaggerated, and I say again, I will review any ban, or any suspension points someone deemed wrongly awarded, I will even review ones rightly earned, if that person wants to meet us in the middle.

 

Well today's ED is a very different ED than the one all of those years ago. Defiantly a lot more lenient than in the past, it's good to see progress is being made.

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Well today's ED is a very different ED than the one all of those years ago. Defiantly a lot more lenient than in the past, it's good to see progress is being made.

I believe in a completely redone DCS 3.0, I hope it won't take years and I hope that after finishing the F18 and the F16 they will concentrate only on the simulator and not on other modules.

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I believe in a completely redone DCS 3.0, I hope it won't take years and I hope that after finishing the F18 and the F16 they will concentrate only on the simulator and not on other modules.

 

Perfectly summarized +111111


Edited by Pâte

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I believe in a completely redone DCS 3.0, I hope it won't take years and I hope that after finishing the F18 and the F16 they will concentrate only on the simulator and not on other modules.

 

Work is being done, but hope will not help, only time and hard work will get results.

 

The team is working very hard to make DCSWorld as good as it can be.

 

thanks

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I believe in a completely redone DCS 3.0, I hope it won't take years and I hope that after finishing the F18 and the F16 they will concentrate only on the simulator and not on other modules.

 

A complete redone can require rebuild the graphic / phisical engine from scratch and make the same with all modules and extra funtionality. To build 1.5 and Dx11 ED need some years. The Vulkan improvent can be the 3.0 and has taking some other quantity of years. If ED make them from 0, that take years, no weeks or mounths.


Edited by Silver_Dragon
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Let's clarify a little point.

 

Persons such as X-CHECK, Jabber, people sharing their point of view such as me and many other. We are not looking for a confrontation. We are not here to kill ED by pleasure and say look how bad it is run away quick they are not working. If we didn't enjoyed DCS we would not be there. X-CHECK said everything, the problem is that we love DCS as much as we hate it.

 

The pleasure of a flight can be ruined in few minutes airborn because of suffering form years/months old problems not fixed. We have the feeling that problems are just stacking on each other. And releasing new unfinished features seems to only making things worse. Adding new problems and slowing down any solving.

 

We understand, it's hard to announce a project and having to deal with a lot of things to do, and people asking non stop for a release (maybe projects are announced too soon ?). We understand ED need to make money to keep running. But the stacking of problems killing the experience is reaching such a point ... i can be very wrong but i would be curious to see for exemple where would be the coregame now if all the ressources puted into the Hornet for exemple, were placed into the coregame. Maybe the F2P coregame is not working ? Maybe it need more ressources than a free plateform can receive ? Maybe selling now DCS coregame could unlock more ressources to dedicate to it ? I don't know and i wont pretend that i know. But i'm afraid of seeing very important things never fixed or in another 10 years. As well as coregame key features never added.

As X-CHECK said, you are doing wonderful aircraft simulation, but what about all the rest, what about the coregame. Because having the best plane possible in a dead environment is sadly quickly useless. And the environment seems to have a massive lack of progress since years now.

 

 

So again we are not here to kill ED. But at a point it seems that a kick in the ass and reminder to make ED open the eyes seems required. I got my ass kicked many times in my profession, sometimes with much harder words that "this is a joke". But always for the same reason, i was blind on my mistakes. And kicking my ass made me open the eyes.

 

So yes more videos like that pop, yes more people encourage to don't purchase anymore anything from ED until we see focus on the coregame and no more futur promises / futur aircrafts. This is the only way we can us kick your ass.

 

Very well said, VERY WELL SAID, especially this:

...... Because having the best plane possible in a dead environment is sadly quickly useless. ......

 

Can't agree more. That is exactly what I feel these days.

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