ECM 15sec fictional "warm up" - dear ED, time is to remove it - Page 5 - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-29-2019, 12:38 AM   #41
Frostie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaxDollarsAtWork View Post
"F-14 seeing through ECM isn't a big deal"
ffs how don't you understand that ECM would help reduce minimum abort range against the 14
Things to consider are the burn through range that would probably be much greater for the far more powerful AN/AWG-9.
The lack of ECCM techniques in DCS at the moment that should be there that would allow the possibility to negate jammer effectivness.
The lack of ECM power dedication and radar frequencies in DCS, an SPJ can't necessarily jam several aircraft and ground radars with the same power as they would against one alone as happens with FC aircraft jammers.

With that in mind ECM is not black and white like we see in DCS, there is so much more to the EW conflict.
Jamming in DCS is gamey, using SPO to gauge range whilst relying on bordering burnthrough to prosecute attacks is not great for realism simulation, a lot of work needs to be done to EW as a whole and is probably why so many full fidelity modules are missing these features.

The day the Mirage locking on to jammers and getting 80nm range indication on the HUD just highlighted how much a joke DCS ECM is.
These days i'd be more concerned about the magic missile tracking being highlighted by the Phoenix more than how ECM works with FF modules.

Last edited by Frostie; 08-29-2019 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:54 PM   #42
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It's worth mentioning that neither the L-005 Sorbtsiya nor the ALQ-135 are simple noise jammers, as DCS models them to be. The question then is whether or not it would be possible to model these systems (and ECM in general) to the exacting standards of DCS world. I would suggest not, given that the functioning of ECM systems are some of the most closely guarded military secrets for air forces the world over. That and how computationally expensive it would be to even approximate actual ECM / ECCM / ESM functions.

I'd love to see electronic warfare in general get a serious treatment in a future DCS world update, but I think it's very unlikely to happen. Pretty sure the very basic noise jammers that we currently have in DCS World have been modelled that way all the way back to Su-27 Flanker Squadron Commander's Edition days in about 1996. My personal view is that I'd like to see them removed until the time that ECM could be given a comprehensive treatment, if that's ever possible.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:38 PM   #43
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They just need implement the ECM to the level of Iraq-Iran war as standard. You will see Aim-54 and TWS guidance in the trash container very quick. No secrecy there.
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Old 08-29-2019, 05:55 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by DarkFire View Post
It's worth mentioning that neither the L-005 Sorbtsiya nor the ALQ-135 are simple noise jammers, as DCS models them to be. The question then is whether or not it would be possible to model these systems (and ECM in general) to the exacting standards of DCS world. I would suggest not, given that the functioning of ECM systems are some of the most closely guarded military secrets for air forces the world over. That and how computationally expensive it would be to even approximate actual ECM / ECCM / ESM functions.

I'd love to see electronic warfare in general get a serious treatment in a future DCS world update, but I think it's very unlikely to happen. Pretty sure the very basic noise jammers that we currently have in DCS World have been modelled that way all the way back to Su-27 Flanker Squadron Commander's Edition days in about 1996. My personal view is that I'd like to see them removed until the time that ECM could be given a comprehensive treatment, if that's ever possible.

I'm of similar mind, although the somewhat recent change to force ECM off until locked for the AI makes the ECM somewhat tolerable in single player.


Even if ECM can't be modeled precisely, I think we can do better than what we have now. Move away from noise jamming (except when appropriate of course) and have some hierarchy of ECM effectiveness to simulate different generations of ECM systems.
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Old 08-31-2019, 10:44 PM   #45
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It can be modeled for sure. I don't know if the new RF modeling is sufficient.

It's very unlikely anyone will get data on what implementations of ECM techniques existed in a given device at a given time, but once the background exists they should be able to implement fairly accurate approximates.

Due the complexity of the topic and the foreseeable business gain I doubt this will be done anytime soon. Plenty of other things to take care of first.
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Old 09-01-2019, 10:16 AM   #46
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The question is, whose ECM/ECCM is better?

So, you're going from 'well DCS sucks at simulating it' to 'But muh radar/jammer'
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