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Old 11-29-2013, 10:44 PM   #11
blackbelter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostie View Post
When you see fast moving contrails high in the sky you can bet there be some AIM-54C coming your way.
Good point... Thanks...
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:42 PM   #12
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the origin of "fox 3": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix

Only the US and Iran had operated the F-14. But I remember coming across a report, years ago, that Spetsnaz came in and grabbed one of the Iranian F-14's to take back home.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javelina1 View Post
the origin of "fox 3": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIM-54_Phoenix

Only the US and Iran had operated the F-14. But I remember coming across a report, years ago, that Spetsnaz came in and grabbed one of the Iranian F-14's to take back home.
Very informative. Thanks.
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Old 11-30-2013, 10:36 PM   #14
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An F-14 will appear closer on your RWR than an F-15, Su-27 at equal distance as it has a much more powerful radar. You could use that tip to increase your awareness on possible 54's heading your way, unless your radar gets jammed as you need to compare range on your RWR and radar. Watch out as the MiG-25/31 will also appear closer. TWES/NCTR systems would be handy here to separate.

In all cases, expect TWS shots every time, stay mobile and often snaking gently between glimbals or circling on station will do the job against long range TWS shots, once she gets close enough, pop up, shoot and take the upper hand.
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Old 12-06-2013, 01:10 AM   #15
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You're playing with fire trying to maintain lock while trying to avoid an active missile. Its completely pointless against the F-14 since they are engaging from well outside your launch capability. You'd be better off sticking to the notch until they are in ET range.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:06 AM   #16
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They were good enough to have a dogfight mode of some sort, but that doesn't mean much.

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Originally Posted by aaron886 View Post
I have a hard time believing the Phoenix should be quite so capable against a small, maneuvering target, but I don't know enough to back it up.
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Old 12-06-2013, 02:32 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
They were good enough to have a dogfight mode of some sort, but that doesn't mean much.
they were good enough to intercept anti-ship missiles, i doubt the size of a fighter factors for much in comparison.
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Old 12-06-2013, 03:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron886 View Post
I have a hard time believing the Phoenix should be quite so capable against a small, maneuvering target, but I don't know enough to back it up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTsKANmFLDE

Test shot against a maneuvering drone at 7:20. Watch the endgame.

Maneuverability being a product of speed, thereby volume of air over the control surfaces, an accelerating/sustaining Phoenix is no laughing matter. Further, given that a major portion of the role was to engage cruise missiles on the deck, the weapon has to naturally have maneuverability to respond in the late phase of a look-down situation. Plus, you're dealing with a 100+ lb warhead; you've got a large proximity margin to work with.

And the Soviets never got an F-14. While the threat was there with the Iranian Revolution (causing a number of software changes that eventually brought about the eventual update to the digital AIM-54C model), the Iranians refused to let the USSR walk off with one.

Hell, the gag is that they wouldn't let the Soviet advisors fly an F-5 (an aircraft they'd already gotten their hands on post-Vietnam), let alone sit in a Tomcat.
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Old 12-06-2013, 05:50 AM   #19
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I remember reading in this book about the F-15 how easy the AIM-54 was to avoid. When the 15 and 14 would do DCAT together, a simple turn at long range was enough to cause the launching aircraft to lose lock and the missile was unable to reacquire it. Or something of that nature. May not be modeled in the game, or I could be mistaken. I'll try and find the book and reproduce it here.
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Old 12-06-2013, 06:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunaticfringe View Post
And the Soviets never got an F-14. While the threat was there with the Iranian Revolution (causing a number of software changes that eventually brought about the eventual update to the digital AIM-54C model), the Iranians refused to let the USSR walk off with one.

Hell, the gag is that they wouldn't let the Soviet advisors fly an F-5 (an aircraft they'd already gotten their hands on post-Vietnam), let alone sit in a Tomcat.

Well, officially I guess it's been like that. I would hardly believe that though, in fact if the Iranians let the Soviets into their Tomcats, or give them a Phoenix to tinker with, it wouldn't had been in their best interests to publicly reveal the feat.

From what I read, the USA gave Tomcats/Phoenix to Iran while said country was governed by the Shah, who was one of the best friends of the Americans. After the 1979 Islamic coup, America became the worst of all enemies of Iran, along with Israel (the governing monks calling the USA "satan").

Yet apparently the AIM-54 was so expensive that live rounds were rarely fired in training. Also, its performance was acceptable only against large, sluggish targets (in fact it was designed to hit Soviet long range bombers before they could fire their cruise missiles at US task forces). The disappearance of the threat from soviet naval aviation really eliminated any justification for the presence of the cats and their primary weapon aboard US carriers.
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