Landing in the Bf 109K-4

I usually make an overhead break to lose speed or use manual prop pitch at 12:00 position because the 109 just doesn't want to slow down.

My usual procedure:

• Initial approach at ~500km/h, 300m, 1.2ATA
  
• After about 1/3 of the runway throttle to idle and left hand break
  
• Gear down at 350km/h
  
• Trim 2-3 nose up
  
• Turn final and start descending once the runway threshold appears behind the left wing.
  
• Flaps down at 250km/h (just before the turn or during the turn)
  
• Glide all the way down, flare, touchdown around 150-160km/h
  
• Stick all the way back to put pressure on the tail wheel
  
• Keep her straight using rudder and if necessary brakes
  

Edit: if necessary you can add a little bit of power during the final turn to keep the speed at about 200km/h but it's usually not necessary

One way to learn how to land a new AC is to practice many runs at the runway without actually touching.

You should never feel that you have to land.

Do several runs at the runway staying several feet above it. Your AC should have flaps down but on the first few runs keep the wheels up.

after about mid way down do a missed approach, go around and line up again.

Once comfortable start doing touch and goes (with your wheels down) while barely touching and then taking off again.

Do many many runs this way (like 15 or more) until you are really feeling good. But always keep in mind that you have an option by taking off and going around again.

Real world pilots do this. Even the F35 pilots still do it at runways they have not landed on before.

Don't forget to watch your tracks either!

I often find it's easier to set up a quick air start mission pointing at the runway about 10-15mi out, attempt a landing, then watch the track to see what I did wrong.

I land just a little bit differently but I'm mainly using grass fields in prep for the WW II map. :P

1. At .5km alt and 300 speed I turn off the pitch automation, and bring it to

setting 12: over a period of some time

2. I begin lowering the flaps to full

3. I drop down from .5km to about .1 km or.2km to get a good look at the landing site

4. I follow an imaginary right hand traffic pattern, while rising back up to .2km or so

5. I lower the gear near the end of the downwind leg, and at the turn I note that my speed is near 250, my alt now .1km

6. I look out my right window to pick a spot to hit while doing the turn

7. My head still looking out the right window, relying on feel and sounds to judge my speed

8. I make the finale turn and take note of my alt and speed, and line up my roll out track, doing speed about 170-200km and very low alt

9. I now pay close attention to the speed while trying to loose the little alt that I have

10. I'm trying now to just keep the wings level as I'm slowing, I watch my speed and alt gauges, and flair her up as I'm now low enough, and the speed is almost to stall speed...after she settles I keep the stick back, wings level, I may or may not use the brakes, because that all depends.

Thanks a lot for all your feedback...I'll try to improve my skill taking care about your suggestions

In any case...landing in real Bf109 looks easier then in DCS :huh:

If you're good you can make it look as easy as this in DCS. Just remember that you have absolutely no feedback about the movement of the aircraft like you would in real life. You rely entirely on visual and audio feedback however you will build muscle memory and at some point it will click. I can take off and land the bf 109 just fine. And some of my landings are very smooth like in this video. I still mess up the occasional landing, most times because I try to force her down when I know I shouldn't - something a real pilot wouldn't do.

yeah, I know that I had a lot of failures when I first tried landings. After awhile failures diminished, but I still have them if not completely concentrating

Guys, any patch of grass is not representative for a grass or gravel airfield. Especially in DCS where you can encounter massive bumps, almost spikes. So IMO you should practice on normal runways anyway.

Guys, any patch of grass is not representative for a grass or gravel airfield. Especially in DCS where you can encounter massive bumps, almost spikes. So IMO you should practice on normal runways anyway.

Very true but it's still fun and not too hard if you've been flying all the WWII modules for a long time. I started with the P-51 in 2012. The Fw 190 was a real challenge when it came out that took some getting used to but after flying it for 4 months the Bf 109 wasn't hard to adapt to. I think take off is easier in it than in the Fw 190 btw.

my tip is to trim noseheavy (+2) this presses the nose on the ground...and with the stick full back..the 109 goes like a train on the runway..you just need to keep her straight and apply breaks until you reach taxi speed

What is a absolutely critical to avoid the ground loop or the leaning to one side after touching down is to eliminate any sideslip when the wheels touch ground and roll out. Since before the screen we have no feedback in our bottoms, check the ball and keep it centered during the process.

my tip is to trim noseheavy (+2) this presses the nose on the ground...and with the stick full back..the 109 goes like a train on the runway..you just need to keep her straight and apply breaks until you reach taxi speed

No, just no. Since they patched the FM, the aircraft is very nose heavy as is once the gear comes down. I tend to trim it to -2 or -3 once my gear is down because I don't like to pull back on the stick that hard during the approach. -3 Trim is exactly what the manual states for landing configuration (flaps down, gear down) and it works very well.

What is a absolutely critical to avoid the ground loop or the leaning to one side after touching down is to eliminate any sideslip when the wheels touch ground and roll out. Since before the screen we have no feedback in our bottoms, check the ball and keep it centered during the process.

Nice tip, and guilty of failing to at times

No, just no. Since they patched the FM, the aircraft is very nose heavy as is once the gear comes down. I tend to trim it to -2 or -3 once my gear is down because I don't like to pull back on the stick that hard during the approach. -3 Trim is exactly what the manual states for landing configuration (flaps down, gear down) and it works very well.

yes it is MY tip..so 10 Guys 10 Ways to do it...I allways land trim +2 and i works perfect for ME...

yes it is MY tip..so 10 Guys 10 Ways to do it...I allways land trim +2 and i works perfect for ME...

If this was before the patch I would agree to trimming it at least slightly nose heavy but since the aircraft is behaving correctly now with the gear down it will just require you to pull back on the stick more than necessary. I don't look at the trim indicator tbh I just trim nose up until it feels right after I put the gear down (only very slight corrections close to the centre position of my stick to stay on the glide slope) but when I check after landing it usually turns out to be between -2 and -3.

If this was before the patch I would agree to trimming it at least slightly nose heavy but since the aircraft is behaving correctly now with the gear down it will just require you to pull back on the stick more than necessary. I don't look at the trim indicator tbh I just trim nose up until it feels right after I put the gear down (only very slight corrections close to the centre position of my stick to stay on the glide slope) but when I check after landing it usually turns out to be between -2 and -3.

o.k. nice..but just let him try the trim +2 method..I mean he does not want to become a certified 109 driver..he wants to land that brid in a computer game...If it does not work...o.k. more practice:)

And for the OP..the best way is allways to post a track...so we can take a look what wents wrong:)

Let me explain what I don't understand about this.

If you trim nose down during the approach you will need a lot of back pressure on the stick to keep the descent rate at something reasonable for a clean landing approach.

Don't get me wrong I do like to keep a bit of back pressure on the stick during the approach but even in neutral trim it is too much for me to be comfortable. If I trim nose up for the final approach I can leave the stick almost centered with only a little bit of back pressure, flare above the runway by pulling back a notch to get the aircraft in to a 3 point attitude and let it settle on the runway. Once wheels are on the ground I pull full back to put pressure on the tail wheel which helps keeping a straight line.

If I do the approach correctly I never need to push the stick forward. I always have it either in neutral during the final turn or slightly back as my speed drops. And this is with trim between -2 and -3.

A nose heavy trim seems very counter intuitive to me. Before the patch you needed to push the stick forward, even with nose heavy trim but this is no longer the case. If it works for you okay, but it's certainly odd.

to be honest..I just don`t care..for me DCS is a computer game..i tried a lot to land the bird correctly..and ended up with the trim + 2 option..simple as that...and I do not have to pull the stick back very agressively while approaching the RW..I guess I will try your - 2/-3 option..who knows..maybe it works for me also:)

It wasn't meant as an attack on you or your procedure ;) Sorry if it appeared that way. That 'No, just no.' only was my spontaneous reaction when I read +2 trim...

To add to that I will not instantly put it to -2 to -3. Since I mostly fly an overhead pattern for my landings I usually trim a little nose up when I put my gear down to keep the altitude (countering the nose down effect when I lower my gear) and then trim more and more nose up as I lose speed, especially in the final turn to keep the descent rate stable

na..I never felt attacked...as I said 10 Guys 10 ways to land the 109...and imho the 109 is by far the hardest plane to land in DCS..it needs loads of practice, and everybody ends up with his own procedure I guess:joystick:

Guys, any patch of grass is not representative for a grass or gravel airfield. Especially in DCS where you can encounter massive bumps, almost spikes. So IMO you should practice on normal runways anyway.

Very true but it's still fun and not too hard if you've been flying all the WWII modules for a long time. I started with the P-51 in 2012. The Fw 190 was a real challenge when it came out that took some getting used to but after flying it for 4 months the Bf 109 wasn't hard to adapt to. I think take off is easier in it than in the Fw 190 btw.

I think that it is more fun and I am able to put myself mentally in more of a WW II atmosphere that way

love those threads...to the OP:

probably you've noticed already, that there are indeed at least 10 different ways of doing it :)

so my tip is, to read this thread, and try all the suggestions here, and then come to your own conclusion.also, if you still have trouble landing the 109, then post a track or a video of one of your attempts where it shows where you typically fail...that way, people can point you into the right direction.

so far all the tips ive read here i can agree with.especially with the "landing in the grass fields" and also the +2 trim. i also agree with the -2-3 trim though :) works both. also as JST pointed out, applying full brakes works good to avoid one wing tipping onto the ground.

love those threads...to the OP:

 

probably you've noticed already, that there are indeed at least 10 different ways of doing it :)

 

so my tip is, to read this thread, and try all the suggestions here, and then come to your own conclusion.also, if you still have trouble landing the 109, then post a track or a video of one of your attempts where it shows where you typically fail...that way, people can point you into the right direction.

 

so far all the tips ive read here i can agree with.especially with the "landing in the grass fields" and also the +2 trim. i also agree with the -2-3 trim though :) works both. also as JST pointed out, applying full brakes works good to avoid one wing tipping onto the ground.

Oh, hi David! I recall a vid with Mustang landing nicely in the field was yours, am I right? Could you post a link to it?

I guess that sums things up nicely. There are lots of ways to land, none is wrong, if it works for you.

For me, trimming the plane carefully, keeping the wings absolutely level, watching the slip indicator, and making sure the approach speed and rate of descent are spot on are the way to go.

When you have the plane flying slowly enough, there is no need for down trim to get the wheels to stay down once you touch. Just touch down nice and gently, and then apply full up elevator to pin the tail down, and let it roll out without braking, just applying left and right rudder to avoid ground looping. It doesn't need a huge amount of runway, so don't worry if you touch down very late.

Really, you just need to practice practice practice, and if you don't have everything nailed, just go around.

Oh, hi David! I recall a vid with Mustang landing nicely in the field was yours, am I right? Could you post a link to it?

mh yeah possible....you mean this one?