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Old 08-04-2020, 06:24 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top Jockey View Post
Well... be careful with those statements.

... or this guy at post #49 will come and make you admit, that the Rafale will fly light speed circles around the Typhoon.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...0&postcount=49
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Old 08-04-2020, 12:40 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Etirion View Post
There will be plenty things causing trouble for Typhoons in close combat, namely the pilots.
I really dont think you should interpret much of an early work in progress flight model from a single comment about how its a great aircraft in BFM.
Oh you're right. My statement was not precise, but i think you got me wrong. I'm not interpreting the wip FM, i'm interpreting the confirmed performance of the real aircraft. And i'm pretty sure if this will be modeled accurate, there will be no aircraft in DCS that can compete with the Typhoon in close combat. Especially in combo with the IRIS-T missile. I.e. the Typhoon won all combat tests in the 2005 Singapore evaluation, including a 3 vs 1 dogfight situation with a single Typhoon defeating 3 RSAF F-16's with ease. Assuming both pilots beeing similar skilled, the F-16 is no match for a Typhoon in close combat. I'm not a ace dogfighter in DCS, but i know a bit about BFM/ACM and can stand my ground in the Hornet and the F-16. Flying the Typhoon (armed with IRIS-T) into a head on head merge, i'd fire a fox 2 over my shoulder prior to the enemy starts turning into me. One or 2 circle fight, high or low altitude/speed... who cares when equipped with over-the-shoulder missiles? Splash one before the fight even started for the bad guy. Slipping into a dogfight facing a Typhoon, i'd try to gtfo of it as fast as i can. The typhoon is a great aircraft and i will definately purchase it at a reasonable developement stage... but we will see what this jet will do to PvP multiplayer in DCS...I'm sceptic.

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Old 08-04-2020, 07:00 PM   #73
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It's almost like you believe that BFM/ACM starts only after you pass the other guy, that missiles have no minimum ranges and 'over-the-shoulder' shots have no limitations and can't be decoyed. Or that AIM-9X doesn't exist.
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Old 08-04-2020, 08:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastypower69 View Post
I’d say it has its own fm. Simon from ED [after flying it] “it has so much grunt. The only thing you’re going to struggle with in close combat is an F16 or a very good Mirage pilot. Otherwise it’s going to rule the roost.”


He said with a clean Viper (no load-out no much fuel) or a very good M-2000 pilot...
And it is normal...ef2000 can hold 9g with external stores without issue (well the Pilot is an issue).
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Old 08-05-2020, 12:32 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VpR81 View Post
Typhoon in close combat. Not sure if this will enhance DCS multiplayer PvP....
It will just be banned on most pvp servers. Or the weapons at least.
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Old 08-05-2020, 11:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
It will just be banned on most pvp servers. Or the weapons at least.
Neither the jet nor the weapons will be banned in most PVP servers. Maybe two top ones will add carrying limitations but even they allow Phoenix missile when it is not bugged out.
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Old 08-05-2020, 03:14 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
It's almost like you believe that BFM/ACM starts only after you pass the other guy, that missiles have no minimum ranges and 'over-the-shoulder' shots have no limitations and can't be decoyed.
I'm totaly aware of that. And on the dogfight servers i join, BFM/ACM does in fact only start after you passed the other guy. Still, doesen't change the fact, that full sphere/over the shoulder capability is a significant game changer in a dogfight. There is a good reason why most of the next gen SRMs (AAM-5, A-Darter, Python-5, IRIS-T) contain this feature. As for CM resistance... All these modern SRM's have equal, or even better CM resistance to the 9X. So the IRIS-T will most likely be very diffcult to decoy. Also i assume that it is very hard to spot a over-the-shoulder launch with a smoke free engine while the missile going off to the opposite direction during the first 1 or 2 seconds. Facing a modern full sphere SRM, i think you'd have to pre-flare permanently if you want to have a chance to decoy it. Also if one believes (and there are a lot doing so) the 9X is the top notch of SRMs, one propably won't pre-flare as he won't expect (can't imagine) his enemy to launch a missile at him in this position. At least when facing such a SRM for the first tiime...

Another thing is the IRIS-Ts capability of beeing used as hard kill protection system, capable of destroying incoming AAMs and SAMs. The IRIS-T has a extreme low minimum range (like all modern SRMs) and it's seeker head can be slaved to the typhoons missile detection system and, if i recall that correct, can also lock onto targets via RWR. Other missiles as well as aircrafts. So the pilot does not even need to look back in order to perform a over-the-shoulder shot at a target on his six using radar. This will make the Typhoon a very dangerous target to lock on to, and way more difficult to destroy than other aircrafts in DCS. You don't realy want to tell me, that this missile won't be a game changer in DCS dogfights? Do you? Assuming it's modeled accurate, it will be a significant advantage over the 9X. Like it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
Or that AIM-9X doesn't exist.
It's almost like you believe the 9X could equal the SRMs named above and as if the germans, israelis, the japanese and some others developed full sphere capability SRMs just for fun. You believe that stuff on Raytheon's homepage saying the AIM-9X beeing the most advanced IR SRM worldwide? While even the Block II variant is still limited to 90° off boresight and lacks hard kill mode capability? Please...At all parameters, the 9X is wether equal to other newer SRMs, or simply outperformed by them. IIRC there is not a single parameter the 9X has an advantage over other advanced SRMs. It's been a while ago when i searched for informations about these missiles, so correct me if i'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
It will just be banned on most pvp servers. Or the weapons at least.
Hopefully, but tbh i rather think it will be like Terrorban wrote. Only very few PvP servers will ban the IRIS-T (same for the Meteor if it comes) and even less will ban the Typhoon in general. I'm a bit worried we will see a lot of PvP servers full of Typhoons because everyone wants to dominate the sky, but we'll see. So far i haven't read anything if TrueGrit will also deliver that ramjet Meteor missile with the Typhoon, wich would be the next Air-Air game changer...

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Old 08-06-2020, 06:43 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VpR81 View Post
I'm totaly aware of that. And on the dogfight servers i join, BFM/ACM does in fact only start after you passed the other guy. Still, doesen't change the fact, that full sphere/over the shoulder capability is a significant game changer in a dogfight.All these modern SRM's have equal, or even better CM resistance to the 9X. So the IRIS-T will most likely be very diffcult to decoy. i think you'd have to pre-flare permanently
Another thing is the IRIS-Ts capability of beeing used as hard kill protection system, capable of destroying incoming AAMs and SAMs. and it's seeker head can be slaved to the typhoons missile detection system and, if i recall that correct, can also lock onto targets via RWR.

Hopefully, but tbh i rather think it will be like Terrorban wrote. Only very few PvP servers will ban the IRIS-T (same for the Meteor if it comes) and even less will ban the Typhoon in general. I'm a bit worried we will see a lot of PvP servers full of Typhoons because everyone wants to dominate the sky, but we'll see. So far i haven't read anything if TrueGrit will also deliver that ramjet Meteor missile with the Typhoon, wich would be the next Air-Air game changer...
The iris-t will not be a game changer, it is better then the aim-9x we have right now without a doubt, but its not enough for hornet players and f-16 players to write home about and fear the skies, it will come down to skill with aircraft more then anything. the game is a first spot and first shoot/high skill kind.
I also have been reading quite a bit about the eurofighter and i could find nothing about the iris-t being slaveable to the missile warning approach system or by the rwr (for an aircraft). Unless you have information that is above a random person who loves plane then i do not think they can. which means it can only do it via datalink, by radar or by pilots helmet which means for dogfight servers you should be golden (unless they have awacs on them)
Iris-t does talk about a higher countermeasure resistance then competitors but they specifically talk about the aim-9l so it might be on par, above or below the aim-9xs flare resistance.

The iris-t does have anti missile capability but that's for missiles farther out, i doubt the pilot would have much time to aim a iris-t against an incoming aim-9x within 3nm, i assume that intended role is for say r27s from bvr or sa-2,3,6s etc. I also doubt the pilot would want to waste a missile in a WVR fight to destroy one of his missiles when they could dump flares, especially since the target may have fired more then one aim-9x

I also would not worry about people running over to the meta just because its meta, people fly what they want to fly for example when the JF-17 came out it had better missile performance then it does now, and the radar could not be notched whilst the amraam had 10-20 percent less range then it does now, I never saw a massive amount of jf-17s flying around. The f-18 also out performs the f-16 right now in terms of meta/ especially payload and its a mixed balance for that aircraft. especially on pvp servers where one would argue meta matters more
You also have the f-14 outperforming in terms of bvr then any other aircraft in terms of range and we dont see the f-18 or f-16 player count suffering for it.
it mainly comes down to the fact most people like to fly nato aircraft that is either modern or iconic so those are more popular. That is to say the euro fighter wont be popular because it will, i assume most Europeans will main it alongside the mirage 2000 and for french lovers turn the exterior into a rafale exterior or a swedelover with a gripen exterior

I also really hope servers don't ban the weapons or the aircraft, it seems a tad bit silly to sleep for the aim-9x (and to an extent the aim-54c for bvr) even though i would argue the aim-9x trivialized WVR fighting but suddenly wake and get upset when something better comes along.
Also truegrit have posted pictures of the eurofighter firing meteor missiles on their instagram so it is likely they will be added
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Last edited by hi41000; 08-06-2020 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 08-07-2020, 02:32 PM   #79
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Regarding the IRIS-T from todays weekend newsletter:

Quote:
‘We at TrueGrit Virtual Technologies would like to take this chance to give you some latest
updates concerning the Eurofighter Typhoon Development. It is with great pride that we can
officially announce a collaboration with Diehl Defence GmbH.

Diehl Defence GmbH is located in Überlingen, Germany and is the manufacturer of the soph-
-isticated IRIS-T missile. They are offering us full support in bringing the most realistic version
of the IRIS-T to DCS World – as always within the limits of what can be released to a public
platform like DCS. It will be available to you with the initial launch of the German Eurofighter
Typhoon Version and will be your main heat seeking missile. With this collaboration we have
come one step closer to bringing you the most realistic experience of the Eurofighter Typhoon
possible.

We are working at full throttle on all areas of the project and are making good progress. The
progress picture by the almighty Fragger shows the latest version of the cockpit.

We would like to thank you for your unwavering support and enthusiasm, as it is a constant
reminder of what we are working towards and motivates us to give our best. You can be sure
that every post, comment and feedback reaches us and is very appreciated. ‘

- True Grit Virtual Technologies
https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php...&postcount=265

Will this be the first missile in DCS with support from the manufacturer? OK, nothing sensitive/secret will be revealed but it could be the first missile in DCS which is close to it's RL counterpart.
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Last edited by unknown; 08-07-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 08-09-2020, 02:27 AM   #80
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Just for people who had any doubts about if the Typhoon will get either the Meteor or IRIS-T


Last edited by Southernbear; 08-09-2020 at 02:35 AM.
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