Tango Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Disregard - will re-post tomorrow when I can make things clearer. Edited June 10, 2012 by Tango 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Hi, Let me see if I can do a better job of explaining this today. :D The problem we have found is as follows. There are several aspects to this so I have numbered the points. 1) REGARDLESS of the model position (either by changing the position in the 3DMax file or using the gear contact points to move it), the tail will always hit the ground at ~12 degrees of pitch. 2) Changing the gear contact points will shift the model vertically, but it does not affect in any way the ground clearance of the tail. Both the model and any spark effects are moved the same amount, so the sparks will occur in the air (distance y on the drawing)! 3) Changing the model position in the 3DMax file does not affect the ground clearance of the tail. It has the interesting effect of moving the model further away from the sparks (so if the sparks are on the ground, they stay on the ground, whilst the rest of the visual model moves - distance x in the drawing). The problem is that none of these things affect the ground clearance of the tail! The tail still hits the ground at ~12 degrees of pitch regardless of what we try. :( What is the fix for this, if there is one? Is it related to the flight model somehow? We have tried everything we can think of. Best regards, Tango. Edited June 10, 2012 by Tango Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungaroJET Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 What is the fix for this, if there is one? Is it related to the flight model somehow? We have tried everything we can think of. THIS IS THE COLLISION MODEL :smilewink: Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentEagle Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 THIS IS THE COLLISION MODEL :smilewink: Actually it's not :) We tried many different collisions models with same result. It's something hard coded and word is that this might be fixed soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tango Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 It's something hard coded and word is that this might be fixed soon. @HungaroJET: What he said. ;) Best regards, Tango. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beczl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It's a collision model issue. Your collision model shouldn't contain a required collision_line declarations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krebs20 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 It's a collision model issue. Your collision model shouldn't contain a required collision_line declarations. Maybe something was lost in translation. Do you mind expanding on this. What I read now is that you have to remove something that is required. I don't understand. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) But if TYPE = "collision_shell"; is required why remove it? I did that and the problem persists, so it is actually a bug. Even with the collision model disabled entirely, it still happens. Also, even with this, the collision shell does not allow impact for anything like buildings or other aircraft. Is anything else required other than that line? I also added the bounding box around the actual aircraft mesh with TYPE = "bounding_box";, is there more I have to do?! Also, I have connectors working on the external model beautifully, but is TYPE = "connector"; necessary or does the actual naming of the connector imply that it is a connector? Edited June 10, 2012 by Blaze i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beczl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yest it's required but you need an additional line object than add the similar properties. No connector declaration is mandatory. TYPE = "collision_line";You can check your collision line if you type showcol into the ModelViewer command line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungaroJET Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Actually it's not :) We tried many different collisions models with same result. It's something hard coded and word is that this might be fixed soon. This is the collision model. I dont know which collision model you using for your Alba model, but the model and the collision model does not much. (lowered gear points, fuselage, nozzle, etc. special points) Can you remember the "sinking into concrete" and levitating "more flyable" planes in LOMAC ? 4xmpl: the Harrier with high AOA made same sparks There was a collision model issue. Not only issue with whole bounding box. There are many decorated collision/touch points in the collision model file which make that touchy sparks and/or crashes. Of course with "sinking into concrete" or levitating "effect". Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Thank you Beczl, I'll updated the collision model. HungaroJet, we are using our own collision model which DOES match our mesh, it just wasn't set up properly as Beczl has stated. i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks Beczl, looks good in ModelViewer at least. For the naming of objects and lines, do the ones that you mentioned here still apply, or are they different now and if so is there a list? Click for full-res. EDIT: Tested in-game, the collision model works perfectly now. Still have the tail strike bug though, so IT'S NOT the collision model's issue, it's something else. Edited June 10, 2012 by Blaze i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beczl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Check \Scripts\Aircrafts\_Common\Damage.lua for correct naming.. Like this damage_cells["NOSE_CENTER"] = 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Thanks for the guides guys.. I've now created a working collision model which was tested by taxiing into a truck... :D Unfortunately it hasn't solved the issue of exploding on takeoff or landing. For those interested, the landing gear code is as follows; nose_gear_pos = {1.493, -0.64, 0.00}, -- nosegear coord fore/aft, up/down, left/right of scene center main_gear_pos = {-0.137, -0.57, 0.494}, -- main gear coords fore/aft, up/down, left/right of scene center tand_gear_max = 0.988, -- distance between main gears in m If I change the vertical clearance of the gear to -2.50 I can rotate and takeoff, but anything lower than say -1.5 will result in an explosion... The less height between the scene center and the tarmac, the less AoA I can achieve without exploding.. Head banging on the desk continues.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungaroJET Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 nose_gear_pos = {1.493, -0.64, 0.00}, -- nosegear coord fore/aft, up/down, left/right of scene center main_gear_pos = {-0.137, -0.57, 0.494}, -- main gear coords fore/aft, up/down, left/right of scene center Hi ! Is it your Mudhen Spanky ? Where is the origo of the plane ? {0.0, 0.0, 0.0} coords under the fuselage ? (somewhere between the two main gear) = wrong or in the model ? (somewhere under the speedbrake) = correct Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanky Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) 0,0,0 is located at the 1/4 chord of the main wing and on the rotation axis.. As seen on the following pic Edited June 11, 2012 by Spanky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Went ahead and made the collision mesh more detailed, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Beczl. Question: For the extra cells do you need an individual "Line_" spline group for each section, or do I just need the main ones? Line_NOSE Line_MAIN Line_WING_L Line_WING_R Line_KIL_L Line_KIL_R Line_STABIL_L Line_STABIL_RAre those all that are needed or do I create my own new ones in Max with the names of the new cells that don't have one listed in the Damage.lua? For example "Line_WING_L_OUT", "Line_WING_L_CENTER", "Line_WING_L_IN" etc... Also, in your shot what are the names of the splines you have connecting to your wheels? This model is working in the sim, just want to be sure I'm not leaving anything out. Edited June 11, 2012 by Blaze i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beczl Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 0,0,0 is located at the 1/4 chord of the main wing and on the rotation axis.. As seen on the following pic Try this nose_gear_pos = {0.485, -0.2, 0.00}, -- nosegear coord X, Y, Z main_gear_pos = {-0.5, -0.185, 0.494}, -- main gear coords X, Y, Z Due your XYZ coordinate declaration is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beczl Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Went ahead and made the collision mesh more detailed, thanks for pointing me in the right direction, Beczl. Question: For the extra cells do you need an individual "Line_" spline group for each section, or do I just need the main ones? Line_NOSE Line_MAIN Line_WING_L Line_WING_R Line_KIL_L Line_KIL_R Line_STABIL_L Line_STABIL_RAre those all that are needed or do I create my own new ones in Max with the names of the new cells that don't have one listed in the Damage.lua? For example "Line_WING_L_OUT", "Line_WING_L_CENTER", "Line_WING_L_IN" etc... Also, in your shot what are the names of the splines you have connecting to your wheels? This model is working in the sim, just want to be sure I'm not leaving anything out. You have to use the exact names that available in Damage.lua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaze Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Ah ok, so I just use the same names but make multiple ones for each cell in that section? i7 7700K | 32GB RAM | GTX 1080Ti | Rift CV1 | TM Warthog | Win 10 "There will always be people with a false sense of entitlement. You can want it, you can ask for it, but you don't automatically deserve it. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungaroJET Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 0,0,0 is located at the 1/4 chord of the main wing and on the rotation axis.. As seen on the following pic If your Microjet is approx. 4 meter long/length IRL, then on the grid^ one square means approx: 0.37*0.37m. Should be calculated in meters from origo: Approx.: Nose wheel touch (lowest) point: 1.776, -0.74, 0.0 Main wheel touch points: -0.18, -0.66 -0.5? and -0.18, -0.66, 0.5? I think the most important part is: Lowered wheels touch points, should be out of (under) the bounding box. Lowest ends of segments nodes of wheel touch points must be loll out from the box (box of collision model) Atop the midnight tarmac, a metal beast awaits. To be flown below the radar, to bring the enemy his fate. HAVE A BANDIT DAY ! [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] "When I'm working on a problem, I never think about beauty. I think only how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong." - R. Buckminster Fuller (1895 - 1983), American Architect, Author, Designer, Inventor, and Futurist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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