[NO BUG]TOR SAM missile self-destruts at specific angles between 30° and 85°...

after approx. 550 meters of flight, missile self destructs when launched at a target between something like 30° (or more) and 85° vertical angle. (low flying targets engaging fine).

-Multiplayer affected aswell

-OSA Sam affected aswell

TorBetween30°and85°missileSelfDestruct.trk

Your target is out of range ( very high ) with target in range all will be fine.

with an out of range shot the missile will self destruct.

Then what about this trackfile (attached below)? Indicating "IN RANGE" in bottom left... And later "IN RANGE" disappears, although missile keeps flying towards target... (my high-angle-analysis appears to be correct.)

(Also note that the missile won't be out of range if the target aircraft, a player, is starting a rapid descent... yes, that regularly happens in DCS PvP multiplayer, when players are totally surprised that a Tor below them just went active. )

TorBetween30°and85°missileSelfDestructPART2.trk

Another example, displays "in range", all first 4 missiles miss.

SAMstillSelfdestruct.trk

Slant range isn't calculated properly most likely. You fire the missiles at a target 12km up so that's outside of the engagement bubble.

Try using tacview, there you can see the "bubble" of the SAM site.

You fire the missiles at a target 12km up so that's outside of the engagement bubble.

definitely not if the target aircraft even is descending... and here you have your 17 sec. tacview-bubble, as you still don't believe it... ;) enjoy! :) https://streamable.com/3rj702

(just one example of possible DCS Tor effectiveness in the right hands ;) yes that was me, on a mountain https://www.twitch.tv/104th_bullet/clip/FreezingProductiveElkTinyFace)

definitely not if the target aircraft even is descending... and here you have your 17 sec. tacview-bubble, as you still don't believe it... ;) enjoy! :) https://streamable.com/3rj702

That's radar coverage, not engagement.

Can't find that in my tacview starter, sorry.

Still happening, both Osa and Tor.

https://ufile.io/zh0cn0vy

https://ufile.io/gaqwsnfn

Checked your tracks. Both are out of range (altitude of bomber was above max range in both tracks)

As I wrote in the file-names, it showed "in range" in bottom left for me.....

Distance yes. Altitude no.

Where did you get information that altitude-wise not in range? Afaik the "range" on bottom left is direct line-of-sight range

Where did you get information that altitude-wise not in range? Afaik the "range" on bottom left is direct line-of-sight range

Check the Alt above the "in range" . Again, the target is in range (for radar lock) but is not within max alt. In DCS SAM units are stupidly over simplified to the real thing, but you do have to ensure target in within max alt.

Not a bug, and has nothing to do with the angle. Has everything to do with altitude of target. Working as intended

Afaik the "range" on bottom left is direct line-of-sight range

Sorry, you are correct about the range in F1 view. !!

You should also always be checking the target altitude in top down view (Plan Position Indicator). Do not fire at any targets outside your weapon's max range or altitude, or the missile will always self destruct.

In each of your tracks the targets were all well outside max altitude. I've included a Screenshot of your target info. As you can see it's altitude is 7560m which is almost 25000 feet!!

Here's your track with the Alt of the F18 set 10 000 feet lower. Always confirm Target alt in PPI and you wont get missiles self destructing.

In none of your tracks did you even open the PPI to verify distance and alt. Very bad practice. You are going to use up a ton of missiles with no hits.

NOT A BUG .trk

The limits of max. range and altitude are not even stated anywhere... facts stays a fact: missile should not self-destruct at those ranges as the target-object could react to SAM-launch by diving towards the SAM, which places the target-object in range again...

(side-note: PPI locking is broken since months, so I don't even bother using PPI. by PPI-locking I mean that you were able to click a target and SAM would auto-turn towards target and lock it)

It has a plain altitude limit. If you think it could be better, maybe ask Almez-Antey

The limits of max. range and altitude are not even stated anywhere... facts stays a fact: missile should not self-destruct at those ranges as the target-object could react to SAM-launch by diving towards the SAM, which places the target-object in range again...

(side-note: PPI locking is broken since months, so I don't even bother using PPI. by PPI-locking I mean that you were able to click a target and SAM would auto-turn towards target and lock it)

Daniel I know you refuse to accept reality, but when a target is above MAX altitude for a specific SAM, that SAM will NOT hit. Why would anyone dive towards the SAM???????????? That makes no sense!

You NEED to understand max range for radar lock, and MAX Altitude for SAM engagement.

This is NOT a bug! If a plane flies 25K feet directly above your SAM, and the max alt for you sam is 20K, you will NEVER get a hit, nor should it ever hit!!!

Use PPI to at least look at the target altitude! You never even glanced at it once in any of you half dozen tracks. Is this how you use SAMs in game? just guess at their altitude?Very very bad gameplay!

You have been playing this game for how many years and you've never seen a SAM database with min/max specs? ????

I have printed versions, iphone versions and even some in my kneeboard for every module I fly. It's some of the most important information you need!!

There's the in game encyclopedia!!!

Here's link top some found in the forums. There are actually dozens of them, so do a search and pick which ones you like better. The data may vary from one DB to another but when that happens always go with the higher limit when flying and lower limit when in the SAM role.

https://wiki.hoggitworld.com/view/Threat_Database

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=84314

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128958

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=128958

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=246477

bug that it says "in range" (bottom left......) when missile will self-destruct is still there.

bug that it says "in range" (bottom left......) when missile will self-destruct is still there.

Not a bug. Target is within radar range. You need to confirm it is within max ceiling altitude.

SAMs in DCS are very very simple, but you do need to confirm they are within launch parameters for max altitude.

if target were within radar range (meaning launch-range, for successful intercept) missile wouldn't self-destruct... how's this not logical to you, Dagger???

Again radar lock range and altitude of target are separate. SAMs all have self destruct capabilities since they are almost exclusively used close to military or important assets. Self destruct is a fail safe to avoid the SAM missing and coming back down on friendlies.

In game simulation of SAMs are very simple with the only requirement being ensuring your target is within SAM ceiling before firing.

Again radar lock range and altitude of target are separate.

then you're mistaken... the bottom left status of "in range" is supposed to indicate "right now the target is in range to launch and missile will reach target if target continues straight flightpath at continuous speed", NOT "in range for a radar lock", Dagger.......

Self destruct is a fail safe to avoid the SAM missing and coming back down on friendlies.

1. missile comes down if you want it or not, either in 1 piece or in lots of small parts (self-destruct), even the "small" debris of the missile can be fatal to "friendlies"...

2. (afaik) no missile-production-company in the world would make a SAM-missile self-destruct BEFORE its (the missile's) INS-system detects a free-fall of the missile (after engine-burn-out) / when the missile still is on its way to the target with a very good chance of intercept... (correct me if I'm wrong!)

This (allegedly) is an actual previously already published photo of the january Iranian Airline Tor shoot-down accident (or claimed to be)... if this nose/nose-cone part of the Tor missile lands on somebody's head, you can imagine what it does to that person... (so to summarize: (afaik) self-destruct only protects vehicles from a complete Tor missile to fall onto it and damage a vehicle, but people outside vehicles definitely aren't safe...)

In game simulation of SAMs are very simple with the only requirement being ensuring your target is within SAM ceiling before firing.

Well then that explains that, that's just awkward for a simulation like DCS (as I explained before, target aircraft/players WILL descend into missile-altitude out of surprise/natural reflex!