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Wow is the Harrier that bad at AA.....


pawea

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Hi folks loving the harrier so far but geeez is it that bad at AA i start off on a test mission with 2 enemy B52's close to 10nm, turn on the seeker cool,master arm on,and the seeker radar by pressing shift+d,line up the enemy,solid lock engage at about 6 miles,pop off 2 AIM-9' sidewinders.....maintain target lock in hud........MISS.....more times than not....am i doing something wrong ?

 

I mean i know the Harrier is primarily a AG fighter but surely it can manage a hit or two o s bumbling slow moving target lol

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The Sidewinders are infrared guided only. There is no seeker radar and you don't have to maintain the target lock after shooting.

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

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6nm is too far away for the Sidewinder, especially on a rear aspect target. Need to get in a lot closer, like 2nm or less depending on their aspect and closure rate. And even then, Id imagine the B-52's will fill the sky with flares, which the Sidewinders loooove.

 

So in your case, the Sidewinders are simply running out of energy.

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6nm is too far away for the Sidewinder, especially on a rear aspect target. Need to get in a lot closer, like 2nm or less depending on their aspect and closure rate. And even then, Id imagine the B-52's will fill the sky with flares, which the Sidewinders loooove.

 

So in your case, the Sidewinders are simply running out of energy.

 

besides, he can also go with the guns, no flare fools that

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The gun is lethal (although obviously no radar gun sight) and it has a ton of power, so as long as it hasn't got too much fuel remaining and you keep the speed up over those little wings, its a great dogfighter.

 

There is a great reference to it, I think in a book titled 'Roger Ball' about their abilities against an F-4.

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"Bad" is a really relative term to use. I can manage to get quite a bit of AA kills with the harrier and Im not that good so try training a bit more.

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I've had great success with the Harrier on the Just Dogfight server. It's obviously outclassed against advanced BVR fighters, but when they're only loaded with WVR missiles (AIM-9), the Harrier is deadly.

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The Harrier isn't too bad at A2A, just need to play to its strengths.

 

As others pointed out for a missile shot; not only be closer so the missile has energy in the bag for maneuvering, but also lead the shot, as it'll aid in not wasting the missiles energy pulling G to get that lead on target. So acquire lock, then bring the nose out to guesstimated lead (there should be quite a bit of leaway before lock is lost) and then Fox 2. Of course if you're just pulling straight in on the 6 of someone flying straight and level; then this doesn't apply.

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Thx for the replies folks managed to figure out simple targets now by engaging them late and leading the missile....tried to go up against an F16 approaching head on....forget it lol......couldn't get a lock on till he was nearly in my face and by then it was too late as the aim 9's are infrared......started dogfighting no matter what i did i just couldn't shake him...couldn't out turn him no matter what i did either eventually was killed by his guns.... this was ai probably even harder with a real player...still great fun

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Unless you're in a radar equipped Harrier optimised for A2A then the Sidewinders are really only there for self defence (or downing hapless L-39s/Mi-8s. Yes aware that sidewinders are not radar guided thanks ;) ).


Edited by Harry.R
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this was ai probably even harder with a real player...still great fun

Not necessarily. The AI uses a different and more simple flight model than player controlled aircrafted do. They can do stuff that a player controlled aircraft can#t do.

Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit

 

DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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Not necessarily. The AI uses a different and more simple flight model than player controlled aircrafted do. They can do stuff that a player controlled aircraft can#t do.

 

This, plus, AI plane always 'knows' where you are whereas keeping the enemy in sight is I think one of the hardest things in dogfight for real player. I lost too many of them because I simply lost sight of the enemy and he didn't.

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Unless you're in a radar equipped Harrier optimised for A2A then the Sidewinders are really only there for self defence (or downing hapless L-39s/Mi-8s. Yes aware that sidewinders are not radar guided thanks ;) ).

 

The L-39 is NOT hapless! Have you tried setting up an L-39 vs Harrier mission? Try it if you're up for a challenge. Thing turns like it's on rails, unless I kill him prior to the merge he gets me every time.

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Thx for the replies folks managed to figure out simple targets now by engaging them late and leading the missile....tried to go up against an F16 approaching head on....forget it lol......couldn't get a lock on till he was nearly in my face and by then it was too late as the aim 9's are infrared......started dogfighting no matter what i did i just couldn't shake him...couldn't out turn him no matter what i did either eventually was killed by his guns.... this was ai probably even harder with a real player...still great fun

 

The Harrier has ViFF up its sleave if it comes to attempting to out-turn, or force an overshoot; It's not guaranteed, but I suspect that's why you struggled when it came to it becoming a turning fight. Use terrain and get in the weeds, make their speed an issue for them.

 

With all said, they're aimed at - and used effectively in - the CAS role, not deliberately going head-to-head with fighters.

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Roger Ball has a bit about it as a dogfighter vs Phantom. It's flown by a veteran Marine pilot who surprises the bejesus out of "Hawk" Smith with it's maneuverability, energy retention, and acceleration. Hawk was a a high time Phantom pilot by this time and said he needed to use every trick he knew to get an advantage on the Harrier.

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