Landing with NWS

Hi brothers,

Anyone else having trouble on landing as soon as WOW with the NWS always automatically on? I'm swerving off the runway before I can disable it.

:pilotfly:

It should be on, you shouldn’t be putting in large rudder inputs, gotta be careful on touchdown and when at high speeds to keep it straight. The sim doesn’t need help either though, so try editing your rudder axis and putting a large curve on it, mine is normally in the 40s or 50s for the rudder.

It does make you wonder however, why Boeing would automatically enable NWS at such high speeds, when the rudders should provide enough yaw to keep the aircraft along the centreline?

Perhaps I'll be better to leave such design decisions to the experts. :)

Edit: unless the NWS action is fly-by-wire and its deflection is more limited at higher speeds??

Here is a IRL very close call example from the documentary Jetstream

It should be on, you shouldn’t be putting in large rudder inputs, gotta be careful on touchdown and when at high speeds to keep it straight. The sim doesn’t need help either though, so try editing your rudder axis and putting a large curve on it, mine is normally in the 40s or 50s for the rudder.

I'm normally up around 25 to 30 on the curves. Is that how the real jet feels like ttaylor? You need that much curve to make it feel right? What pedals are you using if you don't mind me asking. I'm guessing a real good set would make a big difference. I'm still using cheap saitek combat rudder pedals.

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I'm using old saitek pedals that are working fine.

I will try adding curves.

Question of course is...is it normal aircraft behaviour?

Hi brothers,

 

 

Anyone else having trouble on landing as soon as WOW with the NWS always automatically on? I'm swerving off the runway before I can disable it.

 

 

:pilotfly:

I'm using old saitek pedals that are working fine.

 

I will try adding curves.

 

Question of course is...is it normal aircraft behaviour?

I think our controls are a little sensitive + how the grip is modeled depending on surface quality etc?

Still, did you watch video I posted above?

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I usually turn off NWS both on take-off and landing, by using the paddle switch.

I usually turn off NWS both on take-off and landing, by using the paddle switch.

That's cheating tho..:P and not how it's done IRL.

I was trying to get ttaylor0024 to comment on what the real jet is like? He uses 40 - 50 cure as posted above.

I wonder if that's to make it feel right, like the real F-18, not sure on the pedals he is using tho?

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If you watch the 2nd or 3rd episode in this series - an 8-part documentary on a group of students training on the CF-188 (CF18 ) with 410 squadron at Cold Lake - you'll see a real incident that occurred during a formation landing in which the student over-controls with the pedals at touchdown - and gets into yaw oscillations that nearly put her into her wingman. The instructor in the backseat has to take control. - So 'yes' it is realistic....

[spoiler alert]

...the woman student did eventually graduate, and went on to become the 1st female fighter pilot to intercept a Bear bomber...

I'm normally up around 25 to 30 on the curves. Is that how the real jet feels like ttaylor? You need that much curve to make it feel right? What pedals are you using if you don't mind me asking. I'm guessing a real good set would make a big difference. I'm still using cheap saitek combat rudder pedals.

I have just the cheap saitek pro flight pedals.

Here’s the thing with sims though, control input is a series of compromises. No one setting is going to represent the real thing at all regimes of flight. IRL the rudder pedals have more throw each side and more resistance as well. Normally our feet are on the deck and just our toes are on the bottom of the pedals.

Hey Mower hope your happy with your hornet. I know you have waited longer than most :)

I have 25% curve in my saitek pedals and added a small deadzone of 8 because of wear on the pivot and I removed the springs and detent for chopper flying

Hey Mower hope your happy with your hornet. I know you have waited longer than most :)

I have 25% curve in my saitek pedals and added a small deadzone of 8 because of wear on the pivot and I removed the springs and detent for chopper flying

Cheers, will try that.

And yes to previous poster I have the excellent Jetstream series on dvd and have seen that incident.

I don't doubt that it's realistic, but given that everything else in a fly-by-wire aircraft appears to be designed to prevent the aircraft doing anything to endanger it or its "passenger", whatever said "passenger" asks it to do, why would it allow the front wheel to turn so much at high speed and cause a potentially dangerous situation?

There must be a reason i guess????

I've noticed this as well. If you come in too fast you will have a bad time trying to stay straight on the runway. I try to land really slowly and no flaring in this aircraft but with the nose always pitching down due to extra drag from the flaps and needing constant almost mill power to keep it from dropping down further, I sometimes come in a bit too fast and end up doing a Tokyo drift stop towards the end of the runway.

I don't doubt that it's realistic, but given that everything else in a fly-by-wire aircraft appears to be designed to prevent the aircraft doing anything to endanger it or its "passenger", whatever said "passenger" asks it to do, why would it allow the front wheel to turn so much at high speed and cause a potentially dangerous situation?

 

There must be a reason i guess????

Humm maybe the fact it's a Naval aircraft, which needs Nose Wheel to turn fast to go around in small areas on a Carrier? And it's DCS each of use Rudders and brand act different, same goes with Joysticks, that is why they implements Curves in setting, to suit our behavior. At least, i think :) Once you play around with your settings all goes well. Remember there is a diffrence between computer rudders with plastic cheap compontents that generates your input, versus systems in a 32.5 million $ aircraft.

How do you Guys handle the NWS on crosswind landings?

I just testet with 10kts crosswind. Start is ok i had to push left rudder almost full to keep it straight.

Landing is another topic. I tried to keep the Plane straight via Rudder before touchdown.

And im just skidding all over the runway.

Maybe 10kts is allready too much crosswind for a naval plane, dont know.

Whats your experiences?

Humm maybe the fact it's a Naval aircraft, which needs Nose Wheel to turn fast to go around in small areas on a Carrier? And it's DCS each of use Rudders and brand act different, same goes with Joysticks, that is why they implements Curves in setting, to suit our behavior. At least, i think :) Once you play around with your settings all goes well. Remember there is a diffrence between computer rudders with plastic cheap compontents that generates your input, versus systems in a 32.5 million $ aircraft.

But they don't need to turn in tight circles at 140kts or more. :)

I don't doubt that it's realistic, but given that everything else in a fly-by-wire aircraft appears to be designed to prevent the aircraft doing anything to endanger it or its "passenger", whatever said "passenger" asks it to do, why would it allow the front wheel to turn so much at high speed and cause a potentially dangerous situation?

 

There must be a reason i guess????

You can't make any vehicle inherently safe in all regimes, especially a combat aircraft.

I would say it's not that dangerous either. Much like first learning to drive, you'd be a liability without supervision when you first start off, but the risk drastically reduces once you've had the proper training. Which 99.99% of us do not have in the Hornet of course.

The NWS system (low gain) incorporates a yaw rate feedback input from the FCCs, which is designed to suppress directional PIO tendencies by increasing directional damping during takeoff and landing roll.

Perhaps FCS laws need adjustment by developer? If NWS is acting as "direct drive" on landing roll then it is missing a feature.

How do you Guys handle the NWS on crosswind landings?

 

I just testet with 10kts crosswind. Start is ok i had to push left rudder almost full to keep it straight.

Landing is another topic. I tried to keep the Plane straight via Rudder before touchdown.

And im just skidding all over the runway.

Maybe 10kts is allready too much crosswind for a naval plane, dont know.

 

Whats your experiences?

The takeoff and flared landing limit is 30 knots 90° but there is plenty of directional control left to let you exceed that if you're feeling brave.

For crosswind landings fly a crabbed approach and take out half the crab with rudder before touchdown, this'll set you up to track straight(ish) down the runway.

Maintain direction with NWS, in case of NWS failure maintain direction with rudder and brakes. Rudder will lose most effectiveness below ~80 knots.

Extending the airbrake will also reduce rudder effectiveness and directional stability, I've not checked if this is modeled yet though.

Perhaps FCS laws need adjustment by developer? If NWS is acting as "direct drive" on landing roll then it is missing a feature.

This might be because I'm used to Viggens touchy steering but it's feeling pretty well dampened already. I'm finding directional control much easier even up to crazy crosswinds I wouldn't even dream of trying in Viggen.

Seem quite good to me? Only using saitek combat rudder pedals with a 25 curve.

Trimmed for onspeed in level flight before the going down the GS.

But: There are two ways to control yaw more precise on landing that can also be used:

 

1 Toe brakes

2 reverse aileron

 

As for the latter one: stick to the left: yaw right and the other way round. This happens because you decrease the area of airbrake on the side that you're pointing your stick away from. Good old trick, works very well.

I will try these and report back, cheers.

Recommend not "Over-Controlling" in your hand and feet inputs.

I only use NWS on takeoff until hit 80kts (as should be), and on landing same thing, only enable NWS when hit 80kts. That´s the way.