Question about the A10C survivability

Hello everyone.

 

After a lot of reading and a lot of repeating the training missions, I felt ready to play one of the scripted missions.

 

I picked "surrounded!" which looked like a mission to practice markpoints, several weapons and JTAC coordination.

 

It was my first "live" mission with enemy AAA and SAM firing at you, so I begun taking hits and suffering several failures which also served to train my emergency procedures knowledge.

 

Now my questions are as follow:

- In my experience, the "armour" in the A10C is just to keep the pilot alive, but receiving a glancing hit even from a BTR heavy MG is almost always RTB situation due to something always failing, avionics, tgp, hyd systems, a whole engine... Am I missing something? I managed to return to base and land most of the time though, so there is that.

- BMP 2 and 3 are more dangerous than Zeus or truck mounted AAA. I guess the same applies to Bradleys and other IFV equipped with rapid fire autocannons, so I just treat them as AAA. In fact I had to eject twice in the missions, once because I didn't notice a SA9 in one of the convoys and got 4 missiles to the tail (still survived) and the second after a full burst from a lone BMP2 which just ripped off one full wing and one engine. Same as above, Am I missing something or doing something wrong?

- The gun is only useful against soft targets with no MG like trucks. Attacking BMPs, BMRs and other armoured vehicles usually mean you get hit by heavy MG or autocannons and you die or have to RTB crawling in the air. Is there a way to do gun attack runs to those targets reliably?

- How can you translate the 9 line info from the JTAC into useful TAD or TGP or CGI information? I didn't find that in the manual. Sorry if I did, you can just point me in the right direction.

 

I will keep training and asking around here, specially now that I bought both basic and advanced qualification campaigns. Looking forward to get Hawg certified :pilotfly:

 

Thanks in advance!

1) You said it yourself, that armor is the reason you can make it back.

 

2) As far as my experience goes, anything with a high caliber cannon should be considered AAA.

 

3) You can use guns safely on any vehicle, AAA etc. Tanks are a bit more problematic though, cos you have to damage it enough to get a catastrophic kill. I only use guns on tanks when i miss my mk82's and just damage it but not get a kill. Edit: The reason im not using guns on full hp tanks is not that its in-effective, it can get a k-kill on target but whenever i try it, i fail.

 

To be able to engage something that can fire back at you, you need to be precise with your controls. This means, you shouldnt turn your nose on the target until the moment you pull the trigger. You basically need to fly perpendicular to it until you are ready to roll in on target. During your roll-in, what you want is to make a single and precise turn which will end with pipper on target. As soon as the pipper gets on target you fire your burst and roll out.

 

Its usually this "rolling-in and trying to get the pipper on target" process which gets beginners killed.

 

Check out recon stewart's youtube channel , he has some nice videos showing how to do proper roll-in's.

 

4) You can use this document to learn more about the jtac comms and how to use them. Check out the pages between 55-62.

 

Edit: Just wanted to add a couple more things to 4. answer. Jtac's are basically just trying to help you find the target, tell you what to engage it with and how to engage it. They can give you grid locations, precise coordinates or bearing/range info from an already known or easy to find location.

 

For example, lets say jtac gave you a bearing-range info relative to a known friendly position. If you have that friendly position marked on your TAD (which is a green X symbol), you can hook that point, change the hook mode to "hook/cursor" and find that bearing-range position, create a mark point on it. So all you have to do is, understand the 9-line and remarks info then use them to find the target.

Edited April 11, 2018 by kylekatarn720

Sounds like you're maybe flying too low when engaging, when using the gun I usually pull away when the pipper gets 1/4 of the way round.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

Eviscerador,

 

this guy has some good detailed video's on the A-10. try reviewing these.

https://www.youtube.com/user/reconstewart/videos

 

As far as gun runs there is very short time that you have to fire on units as the center piper on the gun roles counterclockwise you should be firing when it goes from 12 o'clock to 9 clock and pulling high g's out of the engagement from 9 o'clock to 6 o'clock. the high the angle of attack the closer the spread of bullets increasing the hit rate but also due to your increased speed you have less time to fire and escape the damage envelope.

 

as far as the gun damage it is a tank killer it just takes more shots and they have to be on the rear area of the tanks especially on the t-90's the front armour is pretty thick. hope this helps a bit I have to go to work so this is all I have for you right now.

 

thanks Falcon76th

Eviscerador,

 

this guy has some good detailed video's on the A-10. try reviewing these.

https://www.youtube.com/user/reconstewart/videos

 

As far as gun runs there is very short time that you have to fire on units as the center piper on the gun roles counterclockwise you should be firing when it goes from 12 o'clock to 9 clock and pulling high g's out of the engagement from 9 o'clock to 6 o'clock. the high the angle of attack the closer the spread of bullets increasing the hit rate but also due to your increased speed you have less time to fire and escape the damage envelope.

 

as far as the gun damage it is a tank killer it just takes more shots and they have to be on the rear area of the tanks especially on the t-90's the front armour is pretty thick. hope this helps a bit I have to go to work so this is all I have for you right now.

 

thanks Falcon76th

In real life one 30mm round could damage a tank beyond repair but because of the DCS' damage model (hit points) you basically have to hit it until dead.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

1. You aren't missing anything...the armor gets you home in a worst case scenario but the ideal situation is to not be shot ;)

 

2. Ditto, your best bet is not to be shot. 20mm autocannons are nothing to scoff at.

 

 

3. For gun runs:

 

Approach from above the range of the enemy cannons/SAMs. For an IR threat this means ~15000 feet. Place the target at approximately at your 11 or 1 o'clock line so that you can see it out of the side of the canopy. As the target passes the canopy rail, pull up ~30 degrees roll the plane over, and "pull" the target through your center mirror. As it passes through the center mirror, roll the plane wings level and the pipper should be approximately in the right place. Reduce your throttle to idle to minimize your heat signature and prevent overspeeding, and make any necessary fine adjustments then hold the first trigger detent to engage PAC; this will hold your pipper on target.

 

Try to release weapons from approximately 1.9nm to 1.7nm slant range for a high angle run (which is what we're doing :) ) then pull up ~30 degrees and roll away. Every 3 or 4 seconds, make a course change and deploy countermeasures until you are out of range to defend against return fire. If your MWS detects an IR launch, cut the throttle, dump flares, and turn out of plane from the launch platform. Once you are able to visually confirm the missile has missed, push the throttles back up and resume defensive maneuvers until out of range.

 

This approach will minimize your exposure to enemy fire, and allow you to maintain visual contact during the entire approach phase so that you aren't caught by surprise in the event there is some type of SAM in the convoy that takes a potshot.

 

I'm sure someone will come along and correct me on the numbers but that's the general idea.

 

4. As kylekatarn posted, check out those pages in the document linked for a fairly complete picture of how and why all those procedures work. It's also not a bad idea to print out a few of these (or laminate one and use a dry erase marker) so you can quickly jot down the information as it comes.

http://en.wiki.eagle.ru/wiki/File:STANDARD_9_LINE_CARD.pdf

 

Taking a few moments to learn how to input coordinates into the CDU would also be a good thing to do. :thumbup:

1. Press the "WP" along the bottom row of the CDU screen

2. Select "waypoint" from the on-screen menu

3. Type the desired name and press the "<number>?" key on-screen to create a new waypoint with the name you typed in, at the number indicated before the ? symbol

4. Select either L/L or UTM using the on-screen toggle key depending on the type of coordinates you're being fed

5. Type in the appropriate coordinates and press the corresponding key (remember longitude is in the XXX degrees, XX.XXX minutes format, I.E. 04233332, even if the coordinates don't require the hundreds place.

6. Select your new waypoint using DMS up/down and press China hat aft long to set that as your SPI, then china hat fwd long to slave all sensors to it

Edited April 11, 2018 by feefifofum

Everyone above seems to have your questions covered, but I just want to add, in case you didn't already know, that the Basic, Advanced, and Tactical qualification campaigns aren't for "training." If you think about it in a school scenario, each mission in these campaigns is more lime a final exam at the end of a semester. You still have to learn the material first. The missions are simply checkrides.

 

That's not to say they won't teach you anything new. I've learned new ways to do things from plenty of those missions. But the instructor won't hold your hand through everything. He may remind you how to do a few key things here and there, or walk you through a few of the basics, but for the most part, he's going to say, "Here's what you need to do (e.g. Create a new steerpoint with time on target of X). Now do it."

Thank you everyone, your answers have been very helpful. I will read those documents and I will take a look at those YouTube channels.

 

Concerning the qualification campaigns, thank you for your tip, I already knew about that. I did my homework before buying them (and noticed that a few steam reviews were bad just because of what you said)

 

The thing is that I have read a lot and I even repeated some of the training missions several times to mess with the TGP options and the CDU pages. I know how to use Mark points, how to use the off set page in the CDU and how to create waypoints or Flightplans, but I'm very green in applying that knowledge to real missions under pressure.

 

Also in training missions nobody shoot at you, so I first though that the Hawg was capable of just shrug off heavy MG fire or non AAA fire like IFV or tanks MGs but I found the hard way that the armour is there just to help you survive till you reach the base, but being hit is most of the time a mission failed, return to base scenario (sure, in RL that is the idea after all...)

 

So that was the reason of most of my questions. Usual greenie stuff :joystick:.

 

As I already said, thank you very much to all for your replies, I will practice even more!

- In my experience, the "armour" in the A10C is just to keep the pilot alive

 

Correct. It's to protect against small arms and stray hits, not to make you invincible. The armor is situated primarily around the cockpit itself, hits to the fuselage or wings from high caliber weapons are likely to damage critical components.

 

 

- BMP 2 and 3 are more dangerous than Zeus or truck mounted AAA.

They're most definitely not more dangerous than Shilkas (what I assume you're referring to by "zeus"). Shilkas have several times the fire rate and radar assisted aiming, as well as higher rates of rotation and elevation and less restriction on those rates.

 

 

The gun is only useful against soft targets with no MG like trucks

Incorrect. The gun is useful against those and even lower end tanks, provided you employ the weapon properly.

 

Am I missing something or doing something wrong?

Yes, specifically, you are attacking at too shallow of an angle. While BMPs and BTRs have high caliber and fairly maneuverable weapons, they are only effective against slow moving, low flying aircraft. They only have a vertical traversal of a few degrees. Get out of the trees and your problem will vanish.

 

People have a bad habit of thinking "This aircraft/helo/whatever is famous for and/or designed for a particular behavior and must always be flown in that manner." This is why you keep getting killed. Your tactics must be flexible and varied depending on the specific circumstances you find yourself in.

 

 

 

Firstly, approaching an armored column in open terrain at low altitude is suicide. You're fully exposing yourself to all their weaponry, even the main gun on a tank can be used against low flying helicopters and aircraft if they're flying in a straight line down his throat. Your protection is in relative motion, forcing them to track your aircraft, lead you, etc. Approach at an angle, roll in on your target, attack, then roll back out. Do not overfly.

 

Additionally, approaching said column at low altitude presents you with the most effective aspects of their armor. The front armor on even the crappiest variant of T-72 is 450mm, orders of magnitude more than a 30mm cannon can penetrate irrespective of range or ammo. Diving on that same T-72 at a steep vertical angle exposes his thin roof armor at flat angles favorable to your weapon.

 

 

 

1. Be flexible in your approach. There is a time for treetop flight and time for... not. If you don't expect enemy interceptors or radar guided SAMs, you shouldn't be on the deck in most cases. Approach your targets from much higher, this puts you out of the effective range that the primary guns on BMPs and BTRs can elevate, as well as most other non-AAA units.

 

2. Be responsive to threats. If stuff starts shooting at you, don't barrel in on the target trying to kill it first. Most ground vehicles are made of steel. Most aircraft are made of aluminum. Do the math, it's not in your favor to trade hits with armored fighting vehicles. Break off when you start taking effective fire. Find another approach or try something else.

 

 

 

I can't offer any JTAC assistance, but regarding general survivability of combat aircraft in general, in reference to the thread title, you need to bear in mind the notions popularly held by the public are largely myth.

 

When you read about the US "steam rolling" the Iraqi ADS in the 90s, people think it was because the US went in there with lightsabers, the Force, and a fleet of super human technology doomsday weapons. That's not the case. They invested a lot of planning, careful coordination, and mixed supporting units. A lone A-10, or group of A-10s, operating in a high threat, especially layered ADS environment, are utterly doomed, just like any other aircraft on the planet. They are not magically impervious to damage, the laws of physics (specifically the parts related to being struck with high explosives) or anything else.

 

Be reasonable in what you expect your aircraft to be able to deal with. Flown properly and in favorable circumstances you are a huge force multiplier and capable of considerable destruction. As soon as resistance starts ramping up, you have to be increasingly careful to avoid getting wasted.

Edited April 11, 2018 by zhukov032186
corrections

I guess I expected flying an IL2 sturmovik, capable of just shruging off everything but high caliber explosive shells like in the IL-2 sim, but nope.

 

Concerning what several of you talked about, what dive angle are we talking about? 40-50º? higher? I'm usually attacking in 20-25º dives which is what I read and was told in the tutorials.

 

Glad to know the gun is not what I feared, a weapon of last resort against very soft targets.

 

Thank you for your comments, they have been helpful. (or so I hope when I take the stick again later this week :lol:)

[...] Reduce your throttle to idle to minimize your heat signature and prevent overspeeding, and make any necessary fine adjustments then hold the first trigger detent to engage PAC; this will hold your pipper on target. [...]

 

Are you sure about throttling back during an attack?

 

Ideally, the pipper should be on target right after the tip-in. Granted, that takes a lot of practice. But if a pilot takes so long to put the pipper on target that the aircraft overspeeds, it would be a good idea to go off dry anyway, because by then the enemy will have had a lot of time to put their guns on the A-10 as well. ;)

 

More importantly though, we really lack engine power, and I'd want every knot for the egress.

 

Is it your experience that reduced throttle settings will make IR missile launches less likely, and that it also helps evade missiles after launch? It sounds plausible, but again, I think I'd prefer airspeed and maneuverability over the hope that a missile might just miss me because of a reduced heat signature.

 

Concerning what several of you talked about, what dive angle are we talking about? 40-50º? higher? I'm usually attacking in 20-25º dives which is what I read and was told in the tutorials.

 

The higher the better against MBTs. 40 to 50° sounds pretty good IMO.

 

I think many missions are relatively unrealistic, with too many targets, too little support from friendly assets and way too little intel for proper mission preparation. Try to make good use of your wingmen, manage your weapons wisely and don't be afraid to change loadouts in the mission planner or on the runway.

 

Some time ago APCs were a lot deadlier than Shilkas. I think their accuracy was turned down, but they are still a pretty massive threat. If at all possible, stay out of their range. After all, survivability means you're more likely to fly another day, not that the aircraft will just shrug off bullets. :thumbup:

I would start with the "sitting ducks mission" Open it if you want to in the mission editor to mix it up, add cold and dark startup at the airport, add another sam site etc. Just save as the mission to your mission file to keep it from overwriting with the updates.

 

This mission has only 3 groups, one silka, 2 BTR's in each group + trucks. No other units will spawn in so it will allow you to take your time and practice.

 

Use the autopilot (ALT: Keep current bank angle and altitude) this will allow you to keep your distance to threats and use the targeting pod to size up you opposition and tactics to be used.

 

Here is an old video by Wags showing the tactics so you can stay out of harms way utilizing the A-10C systems and group tactics, well you do need to manage the AI a bit, they will fly over targets to rejoin and get shot down etc.

 

 

Recommend Chuck's guides found HERE

 

The 375th have some great documents, they also have emergency procedures, sounds like you could use them.:D

 

Bunyap Sims

 

.

Edited April 12, 2018 by David OC

Is it your experience that reduced throttle settings will make IR missile launches less likely, and that it also helps evade missiles after launch?

 

Yes, with a high angle, high altitude run specifically I find both that IR launches are less likely and ultimately less effective with the throttles idle. If I'm firewalling the throttle on the run-in, assuming I start with good speed, after the attack I'm at the point where pulling the necessary G for the escape maneuver will snap the wings...usually I'm still upwards of 300kts by the time I'm ready to get out, which is plenty of energy to work with.

 

Obviously there are a ton of factors here...starting speed, starting altitude, loadout, etc, and these all have an effect on the little details...but that's my sweeping generalization of "the gun run" :)

Edited April 12, 2018 by feefifofum

The problem with anything that is a ground vehicle and has a gun in DCS is, that A) the "targeting" algorithm is the same against ground and air targets and thus it calculates lead for an airplane way too exact. IRL you won't ever shoot at a plane that is gone past you. We got that drilled into our heads, we tried nonetheless and failed gloriously during excercise. Without a ballistics computer and a realtime sensor, like a radar or laser that feeds angle and speed into the calculations the chance to hit a plane with an aimed burst with estimated lead is very, very and I mean veeery low. In DCS the AI calculates lead for a shot like a computer (well, yeah).

 

ED did reduce the accuracy, indeed. But the AI still knows exactly where you are, all the time as soon as you have been spotted once and then they won't lose sight.

 

B) the current damage model does not factor the human crew or model typical nausea, panic etc. or even damage to equipment. A target will shoot at your aircraft 1 sec after it has been hit by a full burst of 30mm as long as it has enough hitpoints left. ED seems to started modeling damage to the engines so below 50% health the Vehicles drive at reduced max speed. Yet they will fire at you totally oblivious to hits.

In real life a tank crew, even in a T-90 will need some time to recover from the hits of a burst with a larger caliber gun rounds.

If one or more hit hard enough they usually injure, disable or kill one or more crew members. And believe me that means the Tank or APC will not fire an accurate burst of the 20mm gun at you.

 

The combination if these two issues makes APC and Tank gunners far more deadly than unguided AAA, for example, yet AAA has a better reach and fires at you at greater distances and less accurate (AI calculates a spread factor), so you have more time to evade.

 

After we now have the overhaul of the graphics engine and DCS core into DCS 2.5 done, I have high hopes they will go over the AI, as well. A new and far better damage model at least for the planes is already in the works. So likely they look at the damage model for vehicles, as well.

 

Until then, there is a lot of good tips in this thread.

You want to keep the time you fly straight towards the gun nozzle of the enemy to an absolute minimum (roll in, immediate line-up, shoot, escape maneuver).

Keep in mind your gun reaches further, than even the mighty Shilka (ZSU-23-4, or colloquial called "Zeus"), has less range than your 30mm, if you time it perfectly you can get a one second burst on target and start your escape maneuver before you get in range!

 

And like Yurgon said: Avoid target fixation and if something is wrong, break off and try another pass...

Edited April 12, 2018 by shagrat
Typo...

One last suggestion, don't overload your aircraft. Stay well below your max weight unless absolutely necessary, that way if you need to bust a move you can without falling out of the sky. I generally aim for 50-60% loaded weight, to retain good maneuverability. It's OK to make multiple passes, and it's OK to RTB for more ammo.

Siunds like you are on a great training track, in that you are evolving beyond thinking about systems amd starting to thing strategy. I highly recommend using tacview to record and review your flights. Watching a mission debrief with threat circles often explain why I was getting shot down.

I have a few suggestions for you guys going for gun passes on armored vehicles:

 

You can safely gun BTRs with impunity with the 30mm. Just shoot at about 1.3-1.4 slant range and break off by 1.1. 100 rounds a pass and you have a high Pk on the BTR from any aspect. This means you can safely take out 10-11 BTRs with your GAU-8 alone.

 

You can safely gun the BMPs with impunity with the 30mm, but at ranges that don't have a high Pk (1.4 slant range and above). I find I often have to make a second pass, sometimes a third to destroy the BMP. This is of course, aiming for 100 rounds on a pass. Best results when you engage from the rear of the vehicle. This means you'll realistically probably only take out 4-6 BMPs with the full load of gun, but still respectable use of ammunition.

 

You can kill tanks but you use so many rounds that you're not optimally using your ordinance when you do so. I recommend only gunning tanks when it's your last option. You and your wingman might kill 4 or 5 tanks with your ammo, but you could kill a lot more targets by using the gun on the APCs and bombs/mavs on the tanks.

In real life one 30mm round could damage a tank beyond repair but because of the DCS' damage model (hit points) you basically have to hit it until dead.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

 

In real life the A-10 cannon is tank killer in the meaning that every tracked, armored and self-defence armed vehicle is a tank. Every BMP-, BTR- and so on are tanks. And you can totally destroy those. The A-10 cannon was designed to be used against APC and IFV, but not really against MBT as those has too thick armor even at the roof and need to get to rear to be effective.

Against MBT you will really knock them out of combat by destroying radios, optics and maybe get some mobility kills by destroying some wheels or tracks. But you are better with the rockets, missiles and bombs against MBT and not use cannon at all.

 

Reason why in DCS we can use the cannon is because we don't have damage model. So you can keep shooting a MBT and eventually kill it. While in reality it should be total waste of ammunition.

And if you need to fly like against T-55/62 at 3 degree dive (ultra shallow) to get even change to get the angle to penetrate the skirt (part just above wheels), you are so close that you can almost see the eye balls of the gunner.

 

And what a competent MBT platoon does is once they hear over radio that you are around, they will reverse to nearest forest. They will hide, they will keep their front armor toward you as much as possible until you are destroyed by the local AA troops.

 

In DCS we have these stupid ideas that MBT platoon is just middle of nowhere without any good anti-air support from armored SPAAG or MANPADS. So you wouldn't get anywhere near to be effective with the cannons.

The problem with anything that is a ground vehicle and has a gun in DCS is, that A) the "targeting" algorithm is the same against ground and air targets and thus it calculates lead for an airplane way too exact. IRL you won't ever shoot at a plane that is gone past you. We got that drilled into our heads, we tried nonetheless and failed gloriously during excercise. Without a ballistics computer and a realtime sensor, like a radar or laser that feeds angle and speed into the calculations the chance to hit a plane with an aimed burst with estimated lead is very, very and I mean veeery low. In DCS the AI calculates lead for a shot like a computer (well, yeah).

 

I find it frustrating that AI does shoot with "perfect lead" and they do shoot and aim same time, always "chasing" the target, and so on always fail as target can just maneuver little and aim is off.

 

Instead the AA units should shoot to estimated point and shoot just one short straight burst without changing aim. Idea to create a steady line of burst to what the pilot will fly, forcing them to try spot the fire and avoid them, rendering them incapable to perform controlled flight as there is too much lead around them in random positions.

 

ED did reduce the accuracy, indeed. But the AI still knows exactly where you are, all the time as soon as you have been spotted once and then they won't lose sight.

 

After we now have the overhaul of the graphics engine and DCS core into DCS 2.5 done, I have high hopes they will go over the AI, as well. A new and far better damage model at least for the planes is already in the works. So likely they look at the damage model for vehicles, as well.

 

Until then, there is a lot of good tips in this thread.

You want to keep the time you fly straight towards the gun nozzle of the enemy to an absolute minimum (roll in, immediate line-up, shoot, escape maneuver).

Keep in mind your gun reaches further, than even the mighty Shilka (ZSU-23-4, or colloquial called "Zeus"), has less range than your 30mm, if you time it perfectly you can get a one second burst on target and start your escape maneuver before you get in range!

 

And like Yurgon said: Avoid target fixation and if something is wrong, break off and try another pass...

 

The AI problem is as well that they are really waiting too long to shoot. As first bursts should be shot well outside of effective range to throw you off from your lining. It ain't the speed that kills you, it is the heavy piece of metal that hits at you and your engines.

 

So you can exactly do that trick that you time the attack with correct ranging as you learn the AI limitations. The air would be filled with shells so you can't get near by the targets as you need to randomly maneuver and try to maneuver so you don't fly toward some random spread near you.

 

I was just yesterday flying for longer time with Harrier, and it is just super easy to fly past any ground unit (Shilkas, BMP-3, T-80U etc) just few meters above their roofs, because the AI does try to shoot to predicted point. Just doing very tiny jinking and you can make AI to shoot all over the places than at you.

 

That is the problem that pilot is the controlling factor for where AI shoots. While it should be opposite, the AI controls where you can fly, and you need extremely fast reflexes as AI should saturate the air around you and in front of you with lead so you will fly straight to line of fire unless you really focus where the fire is going and try to find the opening where to fly by avoiding fire, not guiding it.

So you can exactly do that trick that you time the attack with correct ranging as you learn the AI limitations. The air would be filled with shells so you can't get near by the targets as you need to randomly maneuver and try to maneuver so you don't fly toward some random spread near you.

That is no "trick", that was a design criteria for the A-10 and especially, the GAU-8.

It had to be capable of taking out ZSU-23-4 (Shilkas) beyond their engagement range.

I was just yesterday flying for longer time with Harrier, and it is just super easy to fly past any ground unit (Shilkas, BMP-3, T-80U etc) just few meters above their roofs, because the AI does try to shoot to predicted point. Just doing very tiny jinking and you can make AI to shoot all over the places than at you.

 

That is the problem that pilot is the controlling factor for where AI shoots. While it should be opposite, the AI controls where you can fly, and you need extremely fast reflexes as AI should saturate the air around you and in front of you with lead so you will fly straight to line of fire unless you really focus where the fire is going and try to find the opening where to fly by avoiding fire, not guiding it.

When we trained self defense against airborne targets there were two basic concepts. With small arms fire, try to put as much bullets in the air as possible over a larger area, so the airplane sees tracers everywhere and breaks off its attack.

If you have a sophisticated AAA gun only lead the target on ingress, give it a quick burst, watch the tracers and then correct and hose a stream of deadly iron in the corrected path. Never try to lead an egressing target, you won't hit anyway.

 

That means that if a BMP gunner with an optical sight tries to "calculate" the lead of an AV-8B coming in low at 450 kts... Well, lets say it is a damn unsatisfactory experience for the gunner in real life.

Update! I've been capable of killing Shilkas and BTRs no problem with the gun so far.

 

Now I take much more time to plan my attack instead of going head on to the first vehicle I see. I also practiced how to properly use the PAC system, and it is amazing.

 

Step by step, I'm feeling more confident every mission. Now I just need a good mission to practice JTAC coordinates and the OFFSET CDU page + BULLSEYE.

 

Thank you all for your tips, please keep them comming!

 

PS: I printed and plastified the JTAC 9 liner sheet that somebody showed in this topic and got a waterboard marker. It works great, but now my wife thinks I'm crazy. Maybe I am :music_whistling::lol:

 

PS2: I have also increased my performance and tactics in the Su 25 and Su 25T thanks to the tips here.

Update! I've been capable of killing Shilkas and BTRs no problem with the gun so far.

 

Now I take much more time to plan my attack instead of going head on to the first vehicle I see. I also practiced how to properly use the PAC system, and it is amazing.

 

Step by step, I'm feeling more confident every mission. Now I just need a good mission to practice JTAC coordinates and the OFFSET CDU page + BULLSEYE.

 

Thank you all for your tips, please keep them comming!

 

PS: I printed and plastified the JTAC 9 liner sheet that somebody showed in this topic and got a waterboard marker. It works great, but now my wife thinks I'm crazy. Maybe I am :music_whistling:

 

PS2: I have also increased my performance and tactics in the Su 25 and Su 25T thanks to the tips here.

Great news! And you are not crazy. The correct term is "dedicated". ;)

 

Crazy begins with at least a real kneeboard, a set of printed charts and a CR-3 or E6B...