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Old 07-09-2019, 11:56 PM   #711
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Hmm, I thought these were on Ka-50sh. Just looked at photos and they aren't. So, obviously, it is on a prototype beyond that. And on Ka-52, of course.

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Old 07-10-2019, 01:21 AM   #712
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It's the sensors for the MLWS that was really fitted to 2 real aircraft.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:46 AM   #713
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I don't at all mind seeing the Ka-50 in DCS with the equipment that the night variant (that never went into production) had. I'm not crazy about adding anything that we have no reason to believe was ever on any Ka-50, but within reason I won't complain.

Edit: Actually because I'd rather fly single seat aircraft unless flying with another real person multi-crew (for immersion's sake mostly) I've just had a change of heart. I'd be fine with bringing the Ka-50 up to basically Ka-52 spec.

As for saying the Ka-50 was never more than a prototype; that is trying to change historical facts, and that is something I will strongly and vocally object to. Do not try to justify the decision to create this fictitious updated Ka-50 by purporting a fictitious version of history.

I'm ok with ED saying "We basically want to bring the Ka-52 to DCS but we're going to leave it single seat (Ka-50 variant) because it will lend itself better to DCS gameplay and will require much less development time and effort than building the Ka-52."
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Old 07-12-2019, 11:54 PM   #714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dudikoff View Post
I don't think Ka-52 was in any plans back then (some earlier post mentions a completely different helicopter intended for that role - the Ka-60 which I guess was never developed in that form).
KA-50 was meant to replace all Mi-24 helicopters, and KA-52 to be the group leader where the flight commander sit and designated the targets for the KA-50 pilots.

So it was meant to be a 3x KA-50 and 1x KA-52, where the KA-52 had as well the radar for ground and air search, while the KA-50's were the "drones".

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The Ka-50 was eventually authorized for operational service in the Russian Army (mid-90's), but luckily they didn't have money to produce it. I say luckily, because by that time it was obvious that a more sophisticated and a night-capable version was needed and testing of the Ka-50N showed that two-man crew was preferable for night ops, so Kamov decided to develop the Ka-52 on its own.

The trials for operational service were done in the second chechen war, early 2001. That was first time the KA-50 was put on the field in a order of 4x KA-50 and 2x KA-29, that was meant to be so that KA-29 was the group leader and designated the targets and KA-50 performed the recon and attacks. The KA-50 and KA-29 all received just before shipping to chechen the ABRIS system, it was very much just installed there for that purpose.

The Kamov paid the 2x KA-50, but didn't have funds to pay the rest two KA-50's, hoping that the success of the KA-50 in Chechen will confirm the deal and receive extra funding to deliver the rest of the two KA-50. But that didn't happen, three KA-50 were delivered, IIRC it was #18 and #26 that went there, and later #25 was delivered there too after upgrading it to the ABRIS etc.

After the war, KA-50 project got feedback from the pilots and how to improve it. There were requests for things like:

1) Reorder the avionics, move the ABRIS etc.
2) Self-defence suite, President-S to be installed.
3) FLIR for low light and night flights.

The Department of Defence ordered KA-50 tests in 2003 (IIRC), to test the improved KA-50 based the feedback from the chechen war pilots and engineers.
After the tests in 2005 the new standard for serial production as planned, Minister of Defence made order to start production of the KA-50 to the new upgraded serial production standard.
But funding was cancelled. The project was in the ice.

Few years later the bad experiences with Mi-28 forced the DoD to start production of the KA-50, build the flight simulators for it and speed up the KA-52 project. Again the project as halted and later the KA-52 was found to be worth to sell as you had export markets for it as export clients required a attack helicopter that has two pilots, so KA-50 was impossible to be exported. And so on KA-50 seems to be put on ice, couple versions upgraded to serial production standard (class cockpits, FLIR, self-defence suit etc etc) and rest is production of the KA-52.

In 1997 the glass cockpit version of the KA-50 was shown in air show as potential offer for export customers. There are even videos and photo of the upgraded KA-50 with the upgraded glass cockpit systems in the factory and in the outside, from 2008 or so.

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IIRC, in late 90's the Russian Army chose the Mi-28N for the gunship role, but later on the Ka-52 was chosen by the special forces as their preferred support helicopter.
That was past 2005 or so when the Mi-28 was chosen, only to suffer from not so great performance in the mountains that KA-50 proved to be possible with a co-axial design, reaching even a 60 meter per second vertical speed capability at the altitude, something unheard for flight performance from helicopters on mountains.

The KA-50 #25 we have in DCS, is one of the KA-50 that went to chechen war and is in the configuration after the war and before the trials. Since then it has been modified and altered and doesn't likely anymore exist anymore at all in the shape that it is now in DCS but is more modern or just different.

Was the KA-50 that we have in DCS a prototype? No, it was the testing version for BUG/BAG (IIRC). The prototyping phase was already past but it was not in serial production but was designated as such. Since the war, and testing phase, the serial production standard was upgraded to include all the feedback and flaws, so it as like "KA-50M" that as to come out from it, what we have never seen in DCS and don't see. We do not come to see the one with glass cockpit, FLIR etc. That is likely the KA-50 #18 or #23.
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:14 AM   #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolec View Post
marked sensors are Laser Warning System, L140 i think .., two bulbs under belly are DIRCM (PRESIDENT-S) Directional Infra Red Counter Mesure and yes i saw then on real photos
The L140 laser sensors are small bulbs, those that are in the circled are IR/UV cameras that has detection range of up to 200 km and are capable to detect the missile direction and the range and likely measure the distance as well. That to separate false flags from the real threats and execute the jamming and flaring at the optimal distance from the helicopter.

Meaning, the system will be able to detect a missile launch from very long distances, or detect even a cannon firing. It doesn't care is the missile IR missile or is it radar guided, it will detect it and track it.

After detecting the launch, the system will calculate the approximate distance and the direction and speed of the missile, and so on separate it as well from the cannon firing.

And if the missile is approaching the helicopter, it will execute self-defence program when the missile reaches a optimal range from the helicopter.

This as well means that the system doesn't start jamming or flaring when a friendly helicopter near you will launch a missile, or it doesn't do that when a MBT below you will fire its cannon. It doesn't do that when a friendly near by SAM system launch missile in the air 10 kilometers from you unless that missile is flying toward you. It doesn't neither react to missiles that fighters above you are launching, unless the missile is flying toward you.
It will warn you, alarm you and react to radar guided missiles, only difference is that it can't flare it off or jam it.

There are some reports and procedure documents from manufacturer that the President-S package includes the RF capability, meaning it could be capable to perform CM against a radar guided missile as well. But that is likely part of the package that is for KA-52 with the RWR antennas to detect that kind threats as well and use chaff etc. As there are different President-S suites to Mi-8, KA-50, KA-29, Mi-28 and KA-52.
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Old 07-13-2019, 02:12 AM   #716
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Great posts Fri13, thank you for taking the time to pass on this information.

I will leave a nice photo of one of the updated Ka-50's.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:40 AM   #717
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Yes but the president-s we gonna get is not the same or as good the current one of the Ka-52 one. Ka-50 improved version probably will be an early version of the President-s so let’s not hype too much about what you read about The latest version of the president-s
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:18 PM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripRodriguez View Post
Great posts Fri13, thank you for taking the time to pass on this information.

I will leave a nice photo of one of the updated Ka-50's.
Here is a one updated KA-50 from 2008 (AFAIK):



There was one as well from 1997, likely one of the Sh variants or just cockpit mockup as it was far more futuristic than those.

That is likely the upgraded serial production standard that was made after DCS: BS was released.
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Old 07-13-2019, 09:20 PM   #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepin1234 View Post
Yes but the president-s we gonna get is not the same or as good the current one of the Ka-52 one. Ka-50 improved version probably will be an early version of the President-s so let’s not hype too much about what you read about The latest version of the president-s
It is not "inferior" or "lower grade", it is just a different version that doesn't have some features.

There is no one President-S system, but few different computers that are for different aircrafts. Otherwise same sensors, same capabilities but some are different like likely no RWR on the KA-50 variant.
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Old 07-14-2019, 11:37 AM   #720
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I'm sorry, can I have a quick brief, so that I can avoid 72 pages? Just one question: will the BS3 be a real black shark version (be it a newer one, a prototype built in only one unit, or whatever) or a fictional black shark with systems borrowed from the Ka-52? It would be the first time ED develops something fictional, and I won't be happy with that choice.
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