APKWS - Heads up

Have to say that I didn't know what it was.

Here's the rundown from Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Precision_Kill_Weapon_System

Awesome!

Seals the deal for me. More damage to my bank account...

I wouldn't mind, but it's not that $10 is actually the correct amount.

It's $10 to ED for the update, then £50 to make the missus out for a decent dinner. Expensive stuff this flight simming hobby.

Its my new favourite in the A-10C II :)

Hopefully, the A-10C ll will come with a new manual explaining all the new features/weapons.

So, you don't need the TGP to use them?

So, you don't need the TGP to use them?

No. It's a design feature that they function independent of the launching platform, as long as there is a good laser target designation (and as long as the launching platform can use the traditional 2.75" rocket).

Of course they would also work with a TGP and the launch platform self-lasing the target.

As I understand it, the laser seekers only engage/deploy after launch, so the missile couldn't pick up a laser spot prior to launch anyway. A TGP could still be used to pick up a laser designation prior to launch and then hand off that location to the IFFCC in order to give the APKWS missile the best possible launch parameters. But again, that's not required.

Good, finally I'll be able to easily deliver that rocket headshot to infantry which is the only thing that kills them.

Good, finally I'll be able to easily deliver that rocket headshot to infantry which is the only thing that kills them.

Oh I dunno, in a mission yesterday I had a guy with a Manpad who was being very troublesome, so I dropped a GBU-12 on him and that seemed to sort him out quite nicely :D

So, you don't need the TGP to use them?

Yes and no.

APKWS II is 100% backwards compatible rocket guidance module for any platform that can launch any standard 2.75" FFAR.

You fire it as any unguided one, and rocket will after ~0.5 seconds of launch deploy itself and lock to a proper laser coded dot and guide itself at it. As long laser dot is +/- 20° from the seeker flight path, it can find it as it is rocket booster limited up to 14 km.

It doesn't matter WHO will designate target, or is there designation at all. Rocket flies like a standard unguided rocket if no laser is fired.

That is the beauty of it as you can have it on any vehicle without software or hardware modifications and just have amazing force multiplier to your arsenal as instead a 2 mavericks or 4 JDAM etc, you have a one rocket pod with multiple precision strike rockets that you can use take down major part of enemy vehicles or structures.

Now they have turned even more to Soviet style where soviets put S-5 and S-8 rocket pods on ground vehicles as cheap short range MLRS. But now you have a Humvee with a rocket pod ready to support ground troops without requirement to call air support as you just designate target and call a rocket or two at the direction.

Russians has own similar rocket thing, but their guidance unit is in the tip and exposed for elements, but they only require as well 1 second laser designation and not through whole flight, so likely incapable hit moving targets like APKWS II.

We should get APKWS II to Hornet, Falcon, Huey, Apache, Kiowa Warrior, C-101.... Basically all.

So this is a bigger deal than it initially looks, force multiplier an all that.

But AFAIK this can't take down heavy armor, like Main Battle Tanks and similar, owing to a modest warhead. Is there an effort to change this?

Last I bothered with rockets, they were weak even for what they were intended for, couldn't even be used for antipersonnel. With the lack of splash damage, and a weaker modeling of the initial blast to boot, I doubt these will be of much use. Unless they've fixed it, but I haven't heard anything.

So this is a bigger deal than it initially looks, force multiplier an all that.

 

But AFAIK this can't take down heavy armor, like Main Battle Tanks and similar, owing to a modest warhead. Is there an effort to change this?

IIRC the RHA penetration value for a best HEAT warheads is around 350-450 mm. So you are dangerous even for a MBT. But dont try to aim at front armor, unless going for a driver hatch. But engine compartment, ammunition compartment and many others areas full of optics, radios and such are vulnerable for everything basically from 80 mm mortar shells up to anything else, be it a direct hits to near impacts (+/-30 meters and up depending weapon).

DCS needs to model the fragmentations, penetrations and all properly before these start to be actually more effective against multiple targets, as well AI needs to be modeled in ground vehicles so they will doo all in their powers to avoid engagements and so on make pilots life's miserable, without guided ammunition.

These do not replace Hellfire or Maverick, but are far better than many others, especially unguided rockets unless you want area effect. While these are cheap, far cheaper than a one hellfire or maverick, the price is more than one unguided rocket. So in good combat simulator there would be infantry companies scattered around a one MBT company, with dozens of IFV, trucks and all kind vehicles, and you do perform better with unguided rockets as you can engage large areas quickly.

But that is where A-10 cannon becomes useful as you use it against all soft targets, not really against more heavily armors. Each 30 mm HE shell is like a hand grenade, so longer burst in the forest or expected enemy positions fan be better than volley of some rockets. But considering that you could carry a few laser guided HEAT rockets, you are more capable than with mavericks as you are just cheaper with it. You don't waste expensive AGM on truck or even IFV or foxhole, but cheaper 2.75" rocket that does the job likely from further distance.

So in short. BTRs, BMPs and Shilka's will be toast to this.

Its my new favourite in the A-10C II :)

I totally don't know why...

As I understand it, the laser seekers only engage/deploy after launch, so the missile couldn't pick up a laser spot prior to launch anyway.

Wait a minute, they're LOAL? Holy Belly of the Cake Princess, that's gonna be very delightful!

Good, finally I'll be able to easily deliver that rocket headshot to infantry which is the only thing that kills them.

DCS DM in a nutshell

Oh I dunno, in a mission yesterday I had a guy with a Manpad who was being very troublesome, so I dropped a GBU-12 on him and that seemed to sort him out quite nicely

Guess you hit the head right on the nail there

So in short. BTRs, BMPs and Shilka's will be toast to this.

Yes. APC, IFV, AAA, Artillery and all are potential targets for a single rocket kill.

Even a older MBT becomes such from a rear/top and partially sides at various degrees.

So while some people argue for 6 or 12 AGM-65 Mavericks for Viper, one can just load a two rocket pods and go hunting.

Take a full rocket load and you have army groups to kill...

Wait a minute, they're LOAL? Holy Belly of the Cake Princess, that's gonna be very delightful![/Quote]

 

So this is a bigger deal than it initially looks, force multiplier an all that.

 

But AFAIK this can't take down heavy armor, like Main Battle Tanks and similar, owing to a modest warhead. Is there an effort to change this?

From the top or behind, theres usually only very limited protection even on modern MBTs. Even a small cluster droplet can penetrate them most of the time.

 

APKWS II is 100% backwards compatible rocket guidance module for any platform that can launch any standard 2.75" FFAR. .

 

 

We should get APKWS II to Hornet, Falcon, Huey, Apache, Kiowa Warrior, C-101.... Basically all.

Not entirely true. Only aircraft that can currently use hydra rockets can be converted to APQKWS. Not just “any standard 2.75” FFAR”

That would mean 101 does not have such capabilities.

Not entirely true. Only aircraft that can currently use hydra rockets can be converted to APQKWS. Not just “any standard 2.75” FFAR”

 

That would mean 101 does not have such capabilities.

Not limited to Hydra rockets. Any any rocket that you can thread the module in, is compatible.

"Testing with the Australian Army’s 16 Aviation Brigade’s Tigers included using APKWS to convert a Forges de Zeebrugge (FZ) unguided rocket into a laser precision-guided weapon, and marked the first time airborne testing for both the Tiger and the FZ was conducted with APKWS"

"We’re very excited about the results – to go 10-for-10 is magnificent,” Dave Harrold, precision guidance solutions product line director at BAE says. “We showed up, never having utilised that warhead and motor before, and we went 10-for-10.”

https://www.flightglobal.com/helicopters/apkws-hits-10-for-10-in-rocket-tests-from-australian-tiger/116510.article

https://fz.be/news.php?n=43

Hypothetically it could even work with CVR7, if you could screw it in....

But it is competitive product for many others. But it is not limited to Hydra family of rockets.

Yes. APC, IFV, AAA, Artillery and all are potential targets for a single rocket kill.

Even a older MBT becomes such from a rear/top and partially sides at various degrees.

 

So while some people argue for 6 or 12 AGM-65 Mavericks for Viper, one can just load a two rocket pods and go hunting.

 

Take a full rocket load and you have army groups to kill...

With a TGP you can put 13 pods on so 91 precision guided rockets. :D

[dat video]

Guess that covers it all. Let's see what we can make out of this

With a TGP you can put 13 pods on so 91 precision guided rockets.

Make sure to bring enough fuel and don't fly with the throttles firewalled

Interesting video. I guess that clears up a few grey areas on how the system works. One thing though...I wonder how much salary the driver of that target tow truck is on? lol.

Hypothetically it could even work with CVR7, if you could screw it in....

Well it would screw in, as the Canuck rocket was designed to be modular with American rockets, I believe you can use US fuzes and warheads. But since it's MUCH harder accelerating and to much faster velocities, I don't think it's certain that the APKWS seeker would handle that extra speed, the G's, the response rates without causing it to tumble and lose controlled flight. But turns out that Bristol is making a similar laser seeker for the CRV-7 after all. Another thing I didn't realise is that it has many different warhead types, a few seem unique to this rocket:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRV7

From the top or behind, theres usually only very limited protection even on modern MBTs. Even a small cluster droplet can penetrate them most of the time.

Fair enough, I'm no expert on tanks. But I'd ask you: is a single bomblet on the top/rear of a modern MBT a guarantee of success? Or does it turn into, as I'd suspect, a matter of exactly where precisely it hits, as some areas would only give minor or no actual damage, while other areas might light the whole tank up?

I'm reminded of a situation where during the 1980s a certain country was absolutely certain it would be able to knock out Soviet tanks. And then in the very early 90's, we suddenly got ahold of a dozen or two of the very tanks we'd have been facing. Took one out the range as a target, and discovered to our horror that our own tank rounds were UNABLE to penetrate :cry: (at least that was my takeaway from in-person stories and later documentation that I saw a long time ago, memory is hazy). In some cases, actual results on the battlefield are really quite different than what we were taught, what we "knew from the Army publications", what we assumed from experience. War sometimes serves up nasty surprises.