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Old 08-22-2020, 11:23 PM   #61
Fri13
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Originally Posted by S.E.Bulba View Post
One should not so naively believe everything that is written in the press...
Quote:
.... and as a rule, they are widely covered in the media on a slightly increased scale....
One shouldn't naively believe either that what has not been written, isn't true.,..
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Old 08-23-2020, 12:46 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by S.E.Bulba View Post
It seems to me that you somewhat complicate the plans of the Soviet military command of those years.

The USSR studied the foreign experience of waging wars rather carefully. Soviet military analysts recognized the combat use of US airmobile units during the Vietnam War as quite successful, for example, such as the 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) in 1965. At the same time, conclusions were drawn about the insufficient firepower of the Bell UH-1 type transport helicopters for effective fire support of the airmobile forces. Based on these considerations, the concept of 'flying IFV' won in the USSR (it should also be taken into account that the Soviet Armed Forces did not yet have experience in using airmobile forces and tactics of helicopter landing operations).

In 1968, the first air assault units began to form in the Soviet Army. By this time, the Mil Design Bureau had already begun the development of its Mi-24 'flying IFV'. The future has shown the lack of demand for this concept, but nevertheless, the Mi-24 remains in service to this day.
I believe you.

However, didn't the 'aerial BMP' concept survive experience in Afghanistan - the Mi-36, Mi-40, Mi-42 concepts? The last two would seem to post-date the Afghan war.

I'm also curious as to why the cargo bay was retained when the Mi-35 was redeveloped. They could have removed it.
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Old 08-23-2020, 09:39 AM   #63
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Watching the full interview now, with translated subtitles. The books are harder to find unless they are available in pdf format.
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Old 08-23-2020, 01:58 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by AeriaGloria View Post
That orange is just orange, it’s a submarine periscope, nothing more. I don’t know about filters, but if it has an orange filter it’s probably just for orange light

I think some IFVs also use that periscope, but it is from a submarine, and I can’t wait to see it!
Here’s another source:
Quote:
The Raduga complex included a new target aiming and acquisition system. It was originally a submarine periscope dating back to the 1930s mounted upside down! The top side of the latter was in the right front corner of the WSO cockpit, while the other end of the periscope was located inside a new fairing below the right side of the nose. But, of course, this piece of equipment that was obviously satisfactory had to be adapted to its new task. Thus, the mirror was gyro-stabilized. Also, it was possible to choose between a narrow or wide field of view. An integrated thermal seeker allowed automatic tracking of the position of the missile, the latter being equipped with two tracers at the rear. The trajectory of the missile was then corrected by radio-link, while the WSO continually kept the sight crosshairs on the target until impact. Two small metal doors protected the windows of the optics when not in use.
Source: https://www.16va.be/4.2_les_mi-24_part1_eng.html

Says it’s gyro-stabilized, has narrow and wide FOV + infrared tracking (at least for the missile SACLOS).

Moreover, the Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter book cites the Raduga-F as being a LLTV/FLIR.

This answers applies to @Fri13 comment too.

Edit: some more info/sources: https://www.deviantart.com/stealthfl...a-SH-268189991

Since we have a Hind-F (P version), the Raduga is the Raduga-Sh with at least different left fairing for the Shturm guidance antena.

Last edited by toilet2000; 08-23-2020 at 02:39 PM.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:35 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
One shouldn't naively believe either that what has not been written, isn't true.,..
"Thrice blessed who believes; believing warms the heart." © Alexander Griboyedov ("Woe from Wit", trans. by Sir Bernard Pares).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avimimus View Post
I believe you.

However, didn't the 'aerial BMP' concept survive experience in Afghanistan - the Mi-36, Mi-40, Mi-42 concepts? The last two would seem to post-date the Afghan war.

I'm also curious as to why the cargo bay was retained when the Mi-35 was redeveloped. They could have removed it.
To remove the cargo compartment on the Mi-35M, a completely new helicopter must be designed. And such a helicopter has existed for a relatively long time – this is the Mi-28, but, as you know, it does not have a cargo compartment (apart from a small radio equipment compartment). Mi-36, Mi-40, Mi-42 are just concepts so far, the success of which can be said only after their implementation.

IMHO, in general, it is possible to judge the consistency of the 'flying IFV' concept only after repeated experience of its combat use in real combat operations, and not after demonstration exercises for staff generals and the press, in the absence of a real enemy. So far, in real hostilities, we only see that the tasks of landing special force's sabotage-reconnaissance groups, evacuating downed pilots, etc., are performed by the same Mi-8s, while the Mi-24s and Mi-35Ms just provide cover for them.

If you have a desire to practice in Google/Yandex translation, then on Russian forums you can read the opinions of real army aviation pilots on the concept of transporting troops on the Mi-24, starting with the next post and further on the topic: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4462955.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
… The books are harder to find unless they are available in pdf format.
Previously, PDF could be found in the Russian-language segment of the Internet, but now almost all resources have been cleaned up at the request of the copyright holder. Even in the archive on the publisher's website, you can purchase issues only from 2018 and later. However, there are still resources with reprints, but it is quite difficult to collect all the parts from the series of articles there: #12'2005, #1,3–8,11'2006, #1,3,5,7,11'2007, #1'2008.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toilet2000 View Post
Here’s another source:


Source: https://www.16va.be/4.2_les_mi-24_part1_eng.html

Says it’s gyro-stabilized, has narrow and wide FOV + infrared tracking (at least for the missile SACLOS).

Moreover, the Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter book cites the Raduga-F as being a LLTV/FLIR…
The IRDF of the infrared signal for tracking ATGM, which is part of the radio-guided SACLOS, has nothing to do with LLTV and FLIR. The Mi-24 (with the exception of the Mi-24PN) never had any LLTV and FLIR.
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Original in Russian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
One shouldn't naively believe either that what has not been written, isn't true.,..
«Блажен кто верует, тепло ему на свете!» © Александр Грибоедов («Горе от ума»).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avimimus View Post
I believe you.

However, didn't the 'aerial BMP' concept survive experience in Afghanistan - the Mi-36, Mi-40, Mi-42 concepts? The last two would seem to post-date the Afghan war.

I'm also curious as to why the cargo bay was retained when the Mi-35 was redeveloped. They could have removed it.
Чтобы убрать грузовую кабину на Ми-35М, надо полностью спроектировать новый вертолёт. И такой вертолёт относительно давно уже существует – это Ми-28, но он как известно без грузовой кабины (не считая небольшого отсека радиооборудования). Ми-36, Ми-40, Ми-42 – это пока всего лишь концепции, говорить об успешности которых можно лишь только после их реализации.

ИМХО, вообще судить о состоятельности концепции «летающей БМП» можно лишь после многократного опыта её боевого применения в реальных боевых действиях, а не после показательных учений для штабных генералов и прессы, при отсутствии реального противника. Пока что в реальных боевых действиях мы видим лишь то, что задачи по высадке ДРГ спецназа, эвакуации сбитых пилотов и т.д., выполняют всё те же Ми-8, в то время как Ми-24 и Ми-35М всего лишь обеспечивают их прикрытие.

Если у Вас есть желание попрактиковаться в Google/Yandex-переводе, то на русскоязычных форумах можете почитать мнения реальных пилотов армейской авиации по поводу концепции перевозки десанта на Ми-24, начиная со следующего поста и далее по теме: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=4462955.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratos View Post
… The books are harder to find unless they are available in pdf format.
Раньше PDF можно было найти в русскоязычном сегменте Интернета, однако сейчас практически все ресурсы были зачищены по требованию правообладателя. Даже в архиве на сайте издательства можно приобрести выпуски лишь начиная с 2018 года и позднее. Правда есть ещё ресурсы с перепечатками, но там довольно сложно собрать все части из цикла статей: №12/2005, №1,3–8,11/2006, №1,3,5,7,11/2007, №1/2008.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toilet2000 View Post
Here’s another source:


Source: https://www.16va.be/4.2_les_mi-24_part1_eng.html

Says it’s gyro-stabilized, has narrow and wide FOV + infrared tracking (at least for the missile SACLOS).

Moreover, the Mil Mi-24 Attack Helicopter book cites the Raduga-F as being a LLTV/FLIR…
ИК-пеленгатор инфракрасного сигнала слежения за ПТУР, входящий в состав аппаратуры РКСН, не имеет ничего общего с НУТВ- и тепловизионными прицельными системами. Ми-24 (за исключением Ми-24ПН) никогда не имел никаких НУТВ- и тепловизионных прицельных систем.
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Old 08-24-2020, 06:30 PM   #66
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Thanks for the link, translated and printed!
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