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Old 03-13-2017, 09:08 PM   #1
Focha
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Default Regarding Loss of Hydraulics

Hi all,

Question for devs, why is that when you lose hydraulic power in the cyclic control it starts to wander like crazy?

As far as my real experience tells me, you will not receive this type of movement in real life, although without hydraulics the movement force will be factored a lot in the Huey.

The only time I was flying without hydraulics was in the AS350 and I can assure you it is really stiff!!! You only have a brief accumulator force to bring the aircraft to safe speed, 80 KIAS or below, after that it will be brute force.

But, I've never experience this kind of behavior in real life.

What was the reason to implement that wandering cyclic?

Kind regards.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:57 PM   #2
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I wonder the same. I got my hydraulics shot out the other day while landing and after landing I watched the cyclic float slowly around.


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Old 03-14-2017, 05:39 AM   #3
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I've never lost my hydraulics, but I have turned them off purposely and flown without that and force trim....and it seemed to fly better on approaches??

Another time I did lost all of my trans fluid and the thing still made it 30nm to home.....always thought that was weird too.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:41 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Focha View Post
...
What was the reason to implement that wandering cyclic?
I guess it's by design as an effort to simulate the un-simulateble (or whatever it can be called).

When you IRL get close to the ground and reduce speed it's very easy to get problems with the controls without hydraulics, struggling with them to keep your balance.
(the reason for running landings in rather high speed if possible)
Not really possible to simulate that kind of feeling in consumer controls.

Just me guessing.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:21 PM   #5
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Ooooooh....nice Holton. Thanks!
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:36 PM   #6
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I have heard pilots talk about struggling with the controls... Much like losing power steering on your car. While at low speeds you may struggle to turn the wheel in a 1 dementional plane try doing in 3.


To horse a 7,500 pound helicopter around without hydro would take the work of two strong individuals. I think that is what is being simulated.
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Old 03-14-2017, 07:31 PM   #7
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Yes you struggle to control the helicopter if you are in hover for example or at greater than 80 KIAS speed. You have to be precise with brute force in hover, and just have brute force >80 KIAS.

Usually in real life, you make a running landing, with some forward speed, ~10 KIAS, in order to maintain it manageable. Although I have hover the AS350 without a problem with hydraulics cut out for the purpose of training. The mess starts when you try to compensate every movement.

Ok, so it is clear that without hydraulics you have a rough time at the controls, but you can control the helicopter.

Now, in this simulation, you cannot control the helicopter. As a real world pilot, for me in this simulation, I would rather have a lag on the controls vs out of control! I my humble opinion it would be better simulated the lag, because in real life, its a bit about lag because you don't have the force to instantly manage the cyclic/rotor disk.

But again, you have always control on the helicopter.

I read someone saying that you are "simulate the un-simulateble", well, if you have FFB joystick it can be simulated if devs what to get a more deep level, for those who do not have FFB joystick, a simple lag in joystick vs in game cyclic would simulate best what it is lacking of hydraulics in real life.

Meaning, as long as you are in 80~20 KIAS of range, you have control over the flight. When you pass the 80 KIAS mark, you will struggle a lot to maintain force on the cyclic, and you will end up not having resistance enough. Another problem is hovering because you have lag in your cyclic (you simply don't have the force to react quickly enough to changes) and that could be simulated with lag in controls.

Please, for the devs, remove the cyclic wandering because it is not realistic at all and there is other manners of simulating it.

Thank you.

PS: For those with curiosity, in the AS365 N1, if I lose both hydraulic systems, I cannot control the helicopter, you lose all the control and it is impossible to move the cyclic or collective. Thank engineers for dual hyd system!
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Last edited by Focha; 03-14-2017 at 07:35 PM. Reason: PS
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Old 03-14-2017, 08:40 PM   #8
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I think the power steering thing is a bad analogy. Once you get a vehicle with no power steering moving it drives perfectly fine.
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Old 03-14-2017, 11:55 PM   #9
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It's a lazy way of implementing a stiff cyclic simulation. It's all just a huge amount of lag from your joystick. Annoying.
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Old 03-15-2017, 02:44 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Focha View Post
Yes you struggle to control the helicopter if you are in hover for example or at greater than 80 KIAS speed. You have to be precise with brute force in hover, and just have brute force >80 KIAS.

Usually in real life, you make a running landing, with some forward speed, ~10 KIAS, in order to maintain it manageable. Although I have hover the AS350 without a problem with hydraulics cut out for the purpose of training. The mess starts when you try to compensate every movement.

Ok, so it is clear that without hydraulics you have a rough time at the controls, but you can control the helicopter.

Now, in this simulation, you cannot control the helicopter. As a real world pilot, for me in this simulation, I would rather have a lag on the controls vs out of control! I my humble opinion it would be better simulated the lag, because in real life, its a bit about lag because you don't have the force to instantly manage the cyclic/rotor disk.

But again, you have always control on the helicopter.

I read someone saying that you are "simulate the un-simulateble", well, if you have FFB joystick it can be simulated if devs what to get a more deep level, for those who do not have FFB joystick, a simple lag in joystick vs in game cyclic would simulate best what it is lacking of hydraulics in real life.

Meaning, as long as you are in 80~20 KIAS of range, you have control over the flight. When you pass the 80 KIAS mark, you will struggle a lot to maintain force on the cyclic, and you will end up not having resistance enough. Another problem is hovering because you have lag in your cyclic (you simply don't have the force to react quickly enough to changes) and that could be simulated with lag in controls.

Please, for the devs, remove the cyclic wandering because it is not realistic at all and there is other manners of simulating it.

Thank you.

PS: For those with curiosity, in the AS365 N1, if I lose both hydraulic systems, I cannot control the helicopter, you lose all the control and it is impossible to move the cyclic or collective. Thank engineers for dual hyd system!


I like this approach.


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