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TF-51D


Yo-Yo

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Does anyone know if there is at least one Mustang in the world with rear seat for passenger (without gauges and flightstick) having in its documents an official designator TF-51?

Ніщо так сильно не ранить мозок, як уламки скла від розбитих рожевих окулярів

There is nothing so hurtful for the brain as splinters of broken rose-coloured spectacles.

Ничто так сильно не ранит мозг, как осколки стекла от разбитых розовых очков (С) Me

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Does anyone know if there is at least one Mustang in the world with rear seat for passenger (without gauges and flightstick) having in its documents an official designator TF-51?

 

Not that I am aware of, All TF-51 had dual controls and instruments.

 

Aircraft just with jumpseats were still designated P-51 B/C/D/K

 

Pete

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Hi Yo-Yo,

 

The TF-51's all had dual controls originally. (The T, as I'm sure you know, standing for training). As Pete says above, There are lots of P-51s flying around today with the military radios removed and a 'jump seat' fitted, but these are modern modifications and still carry the designation of P-51 D/K. As far as I'm aware, there were no in service military aircraft with the jump seat. Or, if there was, they were almost certainly field modifications and wouldn't have carried a separate designation.

 

All the TF-51's feature the extended canopy & dual controls - with some also having the extended tail.

 

Rob

Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51)  - 2008... 

Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020...

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Sorry for the double post, but I've just remembered something.

 

North American Aviation never manufactured Mustangs with the jump seat. However, after the war, the Cavalier Aircraft Corporation took some already existing F-51D air frames and modified them significantly. They strengthened the wings, added the taller tail (As seen on the TF-51D) and, most importantly, added a rear seat behind the pilot for an observer - The so called 'Jump seat'. Fuel tanks were also mounted to the wing tips, although these were not present on all of them. I do believe that some Cavalier Mustangs did have the jump seat but didn't feature the 'Tall Tail' - I would need to confirm that though.

 

These Cavalier aircraft we mostly used by foreign air forces, many south american countries using them well in to the 1960s. (I believe the Dominican Republic had Mustangs in service until the early 80's but would have to confirm that).

 

Cavalier P-51:

 

Cavalier-F-51D-Mustang-2.jpg

 

**EDIT** After a quick Google, here's a Cavalier Stang with the jump seat and the stand tail with no tip tanks fitted):

 

1170214.jpg


Edited by VH-Rock

Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51)  - 2008... 

Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020...

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http://www.456fis.org/P-51-2.htm

 

Even in the 1960s, there were those who felt the Mustang still had plenty of potential. One of these was David B. Lindsey JR, who established a company named Trans-Florida Aviation, which rebuilt several Mustangs into a two-seat "executive transport" named the "Cavalier". The Cavalier Mustang attracted enough attention to lead Lindsey to rename his company "Cavalier Aircraft Corporation" in 1962, and acquired the Mustang type certificate and tradename from North American.

 

The Cavalier Mustang was available in a range of versions, including the "750", "1200", "1500", "2000", and "2500". They were all very similar, the main difference between the variants being an increase in fuel capacity up the numbering sequence, with the Cavalier 2000 and 2500 adding fixed wingtip tanks with a capacity of 416.5 liters (110 US gallons) each. Cavalier also appears to have fitted out aircraft as per user request, making most of them custom jobs to a degree.

 

Interesting - So there were late 50's early 60's commercialy produced new civilian 'limousine' mustangs with pasenger only seats in the back, and the versions with greater than "2000" mile range that had wingtip tanks added (so those with lesser ranges didn't)...

 

Even with plush leather seats in the back, I can't see it would have been very luxurious back there - unless you were small, and deaf :)

Cheers.

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http://www.456fis.org/P-51-2.htm

 

 

 

Interesting - So there were late 50's early 60's commercialy produced new civilian 'limousine' mustangs with pasenger only seats in the back, and the versions with greater than "2000" mile range that had wingtip tanks added (so those with lesser ranges didn't)...

 

Even with plush leather seats in the back, I can't see it would have been very luxurious back there - unless you were small, and deaf :)

 

Indeed - he originally bought these to be a sort of fast transport, the learjet of it's day. However, most the F-51s that he bought we modified and went back in to miltary service with South American countries :)

Virtual Horsemen - Right Wing (P-51)  - 2008... 

Virtual Ultimate Fighters - Lead (P-47) - 2020...

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There were about a dozen TF 51's a few years ago. There is a TSO for the mod, I'm pretty sure. There are more today because people having Mustangs rebuilt are attracted to the TF. It's important to note- The TF-51 doesn't just have dual controls. It has a full rear cockpit. Also, the canopy is different, with more headroom in the back section. The altered canopy profile is the reason for the taller vertical fin as there is some airflow separation and a little less flow to the rudder. When I was in Crazy Horse almost a decade ago, I rode in both positions. The rear cockpit had no radio/nav stack but all the other instruments. You couldn't start the Merlin from the back and the guy in front had to handle the gear. I rode with both Ed Shippley and Lee Lauderback. Their biggest fear as instructors- The one thing they couldn't counteract was somebody getting on the brakes too hard.

 

There will be more TF-51's every year.

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  • 4 years later...

Holy Necropost Batman!

 

But yes.. What we have in-sim isn't a TF-51, its a P-51D with a jumpseat, a pretty common conversion.

 

I still think it would be cool to make it multi-crew so we can take people for rides in the back seat in Multiplayer.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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So were the the P-51's with the backseat only, as we have in DCS,

field conversions only?

Were or are there any published documentations (TO's) on doing the conversion (like weight and balance, removing equipment, etc.), or did the ground crews just do as what would work?

Were the radios removed, or were the radio equipment moved aft for the field conversions during the war years (if any P-51's were converted with back seat only during that time),

or was it just a mix?

Any good web sites for technical documentation (TO's)?

I think Cavalier Mustangs were built or converted from ex-AF stock in the 60's as GA aircraft, those are the ones with just a passenger seat. But who knows were the company files are now. Anyway it's plenty of examples of them out there, TFC owns one which was used as example for the module I believe.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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  • 2 weeks later...
So were the the P-51's with the backseat only, as we have in DCS,

field conversions only?

Were or are there any published documentations (TO's) on doing the conversion (like weight and balance, removing equipment, etc.), or did the ground crews just do as what would work?

Were the radios removed, or were the radio equipment moved aft for the field conversions during the war years (if any P-51's were converted with back seat only during that time),

or was it just a mix?

Any good web sites for technical documentation (TO's)?

 

They were all post war civil conversions.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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