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Old 08-18-2018, 05:18 AM   #1
Akmatov
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Default Thumbs UP or Down on Newbie Buy?

I apologize as this seems to have been beaten into the ground, repeatedly. But as a newbie who just wandered in off the street I've seen some of the grafette but don't have the understanding to made a judgement. Also, as a WIP, the Hawk seems to have recently received some updates.

Newbie here, looking for a functional Training aircraft to become familiar with DCS World and DCS aircraft in solo training situations. Not seeking ace status and glory in multiplayer. While the L-39 sure looks nice, it is Russian and I'd prefer to learn on Western instruments and systems.

Basically, in it's current state, and I understand it is a WIP, what, if any, obstacles are there currently for me in training up with the Hawk? My eventual goal is the A-10C and maybe the F/A-18 (I cringe at the thought) but I definitely need a trainer first. Any advice appreciated.
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Old 08-18-2018, 08:57 AM   #2
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Imo, although unfinished, the hawk isn't "too bad" but it may be a while until it's finished off that bothers you, the other option is the c-101, which whilst also unfinished appears to be closer to completion.

Both aircraft offer the ability to train on flight and procedures, will eventually allow "dual seat" controls so you could have an experienced friend fly along in the back, and are capable of performing basic combat once you feel more comfortable with basic flying.

It'll be great to know what you decide to do, and if you are serious about learning I'm more than happy to lend a hand, just hit me up with a pm!
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Old 08-18-2018, 09:45 AM   #3
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I (as my own personal review) do not find anything wrong with the Hawk's current state besides the damage model, which is already a huge and widely known problem in DCS over-all. I think the new PBR update gives it a better outlook on how things are going and shows a brighter future. Hopefully, once ED have other things like MP fixed, (which they have noted in a newsletter) we may be able to see even more possibilities with this module.

Overall, I like it. It is a preference for others, though. I honestly just say you try it out yourself, maybe whenever there is a sale or whatnot.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #4
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As much as I'm sure the L39 is a great module, I am with the OP in that I won't buy it (yet at least) as it does not feature western avionics or design mentality and would rather wait (or buy as I have) for a western trainer.

But it is very subjective and I've nothing against the design of the aircraft in dcs, just the aircraft it was created from.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akmatov View Post
Basically, in it's current state, and I understand it is a WIP, what, if any, obstacles are there currently for me in training up with the Hawk? My eventual goal is the A-10C and maybe the F/A-18 (I cringe at the thought) but I definitely need a trainer first. Any advice appreciated.
What do you want to train?

Basic flight training? Okay, but you can do that in any airframe of your choice, you don't pay for fuel or maintenance like in real life. Flying a hornet is as expensive per hour in DCS as flying the Yak-52 or the Hawk.

Navigation? Last time I checked the radios were broken in the Hawk and there's nothing in the recent changelogs that would say they were fixed. Besides, you can learn TACAN navigation in any western airplane (see previous point), while the Hawk isn't equipped with anything else.

Weapons employment? Weapons systems are the most unfinished part of the hawk, even as basic as they are. Gunsight is a useless placeholder that works nothing like the real thing. Gun can only fire in long bursts that you can't control. Rockets fire in a burst of two spaced by two second delay, so you can't hit anything. Bombs, well, can't use gunsight for aiming so it's back to WWII bombing technique.

People really sometimes overthink the purpose of training aircraft in DCS. In real life they exist because they are safer, cheaper to build and operate than high performance combat machines. None of this matter in the simulator. It's more efficient just to pick the aircraft you want to fly and learn it bit by bit, there are plenty of training materials, especially for the A-10C. Hornet is still in its infancy so things tend to change every two weeks with the new patch.

If you want to get familiar with DCS first, just focus for a week or two on the free TF-51 and Su-25T. And if you really want a trainer aircraft, Hawk is still IMO the worst option of the three (four?) trainers available currently in DCS.
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Old 08-18-2018, 10:40 AM   #6
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I own all 3 of the jet trainers - L39 and C101 are my favorites with Hawk on 3rd place.

Not sure if 2seater possibility is still in the table for the Hawk.

C101 offers western instruments and is also used as a trainer for F-18 pilots in the spanish if Air Force I am not wrong.
It still lacks AFM but hopefully we will see it soon along with the 101CC.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:04 AM   #7
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Both the Hawk and the L-39 are fine, the L-39 definitely being the more finished product, that also allows dual cockpit use. The Hawk has a western cockpit.

But my main question would be whether you actually need to fly first a trainer before engaging in the A-10C or Hornet. Both these aircraft have way more advanced avionics than those trainers and they fly amazingly easy! I would say the A-10C is the perfect "trainer" in DCS. You can really train TACAN and ILS navigation. That's the advantage of an digital simulation: no need for a dedicated trainer aircraft imho.

I fly both the Hawk and the L-39 because I like those aircraft, not as a trainer for something else.
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Old 08-18-2018, 05:29 PM   #8
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Thx guys, good info to think on. Thinking of just firing up the A-10C and learn it one nibble at a time. Do wish the Hawk was more developed, but maybe the idea that I'm over thinking this is correct.

Would navigation training in FSX carry over to DCS? Thinking of warping an FSX aircraft to the Caucasus and just looking around - doing some navigating and landings.
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Old 08-18-2018, 06:17 PM   #9
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If you want western gauges I'd recommend the F-5. It's is pretty much complete, and the bugs that are around aren't major. It allows for TACAN and NBD navigation, and takes less than a minute to start up (most of that is waiting for the ground crew). A2G is old school, and requires precise flying, which I find enjoyable. A2A is a blast, and is pretty simple (the radar is pretty low powered though, so unless you're hunting transport A/C it's a day fighter largely). It's fast enough you can fly from the Southern edge of the map near Turkey up to the N end in about an hour, and just like a modern jet liner you can be up in the flight levels a few minutes after take off.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:01 PM   #10
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I enjoy using the trainers and doing low intensity conflict stuff with them.The L-39 is by far the best traimer in DCS world and I think you're anticipating more differences between it and western aircraft than there really is. I also really like the C-101 although be warned it does not yet have an advanced flight model, multi crew, or weapons but those are probably a few months away. It is reliable though. The Hawk... Well its seeing improvements and I want it to succeed but it's still not in a place I can reccomend it and my biggest disappointment they have taken multicrew off the table.
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