Let's talk the P-51 in combat in DCS - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-12-2019, 12:46 AM   #1
Aurelius
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Default Let's talk the P-51 in combat in DCS

I have been using the P-51 now for a few weeks in multiplayer (mainly on the Burning Skies server) and I have noticed several things that seem odd:

1 - A Dora on MW50 boost seems to be faster than me and can slowly pull away on the deck. (I am using Military Power at 67 inches) This was true in real life?

2 - When I engage an enemy, especially if on MP, the fuel goes fast and about 65% of the time, during the heat of the chase or fight, my prop stutters because one of the tanks went dry. I quickly switch it over to the next tank but by then, a 2-3 second pause of slower speed and less power has put me in a bad position. If this is the way the real P-51 fought, I can only say it must have been a nightmare to have face a possible empty tank in the heat of battle. Any other option here?

3 - I know the guns aren't noted for their strength like, say, an Anton, .... but I have fired long streams into Doras all over the place and usually nothing happens. DCS modeling error?

4 - Down low, it seems the Dora can out speed me, out turn me, out dive me and out climb me. No advantage for the P51 down low in any arena? (Yes, I know the P-51 is supposed to be super shit up at 35,000 ft but almost no fights in any online servers ever take place at that altitude.)

5 - The P-51 in real combat was often used to launch rockets or dive bomb enemy targets, which to me indicates it could at least take a few hits in return. When I dive bomb anything or a Dora hits me, it seems like about one single shot and the engine goes out, my prop stops and the show is over. I know the Merlin engine is water cooled and what not, but I don't think it was that weak. Am I wrong?


I have been flying the P-51 for the most part as all guides recommend, keep air speed high, don't get into a turn fight, don't try to outclimb Dora or K4 down low, etc... etc... and I am having decent success killing people online but I still have to say, .... I think this fighter is a piece of %$#!. I am aware the P-51 was designed as an escort fighter to accompany bombers at high alt to German home territory and it was used in coordinated teams but it still has glaring flaws. I don't know which American general had overall say in the final design requirements requested by Curtis and NAA but despite all the innovative features for circa 1943, .... I would never in a million years have approved this design. (assuming DCS programmers modeled the P-51 correctly and I will give them the benefit of the doubt and say they did an excellent job.)
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:53 AM   #2
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1. Ed tries to match performance to published numbers, not how planes match up.

2. You should be flipping tanks periodically anyway to maintain balance.

3. Iron ass syndrome. Everything in DCS is a bit stout at the direct 6. Try for an angle.

4. Fly tight and look for him to make a mistake, or get a wingman.

5. They don't do as well as others. It's an escort fighter. Wait for the Jug. Mustang losses to ground fire were mind blowing at the start of the Korean war.

You're flying the mid-war generic mustang against the cream of late war german prop fighters. If your having decent success getting online kills then your doing fine. The real power of the US in WW2 wasn't the quality of its war machines, it was numbers they were produced in.
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Old 08-12-2019, 03:57 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Paganus View Post
..... The real power of the US in WW2 wasn't the quality of its war machines, it was numbers they were produced in.
I am no WW2 historian but the more I have learned over the years about the War, the more I become convinced you are correct. I am not sure we had the better planes, guns, tanks or generals, ... I think we just out manufactured all of Europe and Japan. (I do think the USA also focused on sending veterans with war experience back home to teach newer recruits rather than continuing to use our top officers in continual conflict, as I believe was the case for most of the top German and Jap aces, tank commanders, etc...)
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Old 08-12-2019, 06:12 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I am no WW2 historian but the more I have learned over the years about the War, the more I become convinced you are correct. I am not sure we had the better planes, guns, tanks or generals, ... I think we just out manufactured all of Europe and Japan. (I do think the USA also focused on sending veterans with war experience back home to teach newer recruits rather than continuing to use our top officers in continual conflict, as I believe was the case for most of the top German and Jap aces, tank commanders, etc...)
Exactly and this show up also on Tank, I read thar USA general accept as combat doctrine that at least 4 Shermans was needed (in a coordinated attack) to kill a Tiger...

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Old 08-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #5
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Dora with mw50 is hiting 2000hp p-51 1600hp
Is it possible to use WEP in p-51 w/o certain engine dead now ?

Last edited by grafspee; 08-12-2019 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 08-12-2019, 08:08 AM   #6
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Dora with mw50 is hiting 2000hp p-51 1600hp
Is it possible to use WEP in p-51 w/o certain engine dead now ?
The point is that power and the maximum speed are in very interesting relationship... N1/N2= k*(Speed1/Speed2)^3. It means that power plays less role in comparison to S*CL, for example.
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Old 10-04-2019, 01:51 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Aurelius View Post
I am no WW2 historian but the more I have learned over the years about the War, the more I become convinced you are correct. I am not sure we had the better planes, guns, tanks or generals, ... I think we just out manufactured all of Europe and Japan. (I do think the USA also focused on sending veterans with war experience back home to teach newer recruits rather than continuing to use our top officers in continual conflict, as I believe was the case for most of the top German and Jap aces, tank commanders, etc...)

Wrong.



The Merlin P-51 was better than the 109G and 190A. Arguably better than the 190D.

The Sherman was better than the MkIV and T34.
The Garand was the best infantry weapon in common, widespread use in any army.
The US artillery with "time on target" was the most devastating artillery branch in any service.
Bradley was one of the best generals of the war.


You just need to do more reading.
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Pzkfw View Post
Wrong.



The Merlin P-51 was better than the 109G and 190A. Arguably better than the 190D.

The Sherman was better than the MkIV and T34.
The Garand was the best infantry weapon in common, widespread use in any army.
The US artillery with "time on target" was the most devastating artillery branch in any service.
Bradley was one of the best generals of the war.


You just need to do more reading.
P-51 was better then 109G/190A in many aspects but not in all
190D9 actualy was king of the sky for some time.
Sherman was good for his job, But all of them were comparable with T34 besting all of them for sure.
US artilery was exelent but we cant take away anything from russian altilery(rocket artilery wich was very devastating) or german altilery too
It was main firepower during ww2,creating the biggest percantage of losses i think.
There was many great leaders on both sides.
Which one was the best?, Hard to answer this question.
I can tell one thing, production capabilities of Allied nations combined, was just over kill compare to Axis side capabilites.

Last edited by grafspee; 10-04-2019 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 07:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Pzkfw View Post
Wrong.



The Merlin P-51 was better than the 109G and 190A. Arguably better than the 190D.

The Sherman was better than the MkIV and T34.
The Garand was the best infantry weapon in common, widespread use in any army.
The US artillery with "time on target" was the most devastating artillery branch in any service.
Bradley was one of the best generals of the war.


You just need to do more reading.
Didn't agree with you
P51 was better than Bf 109 : Yes over 4000 m but not under
P51 was better than Fw 190 A : Yes, over 4000m but not under
P51 was better than Fw 190 D : yes if there was 4 P51 againts 1 Fw 190D

Sherman is better than MkIV : Yes if you talk about Sherman Firefly.
Sheman was better than T34 : It depends about what ? T34 had better armor, better reliability and better capacity to work in really hard condition (snow mud,...). But some version of Sherman were better than classis T34 and some version of T34 were better than Sherman (Firefly vs T34 1941 or Sherman 75 mm vs T34 85 mm would not end the same way).

It's not as simple as you described it.
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Old 10-07-2019, 07:28 AM   #10
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Didn't agree with you
(Firefly vs T34 1941 or Sherman 75 mm vs T34 85 mm would not end the same way).

It's not as simple as you described it.
75mm M3 was quite a disaster in Anti tank role. 76.2mm from early t34s was much better in this regard.

If we take Allison powered p-51, no advantage above 4000m over bf109 anymore.
Topic is extremly big to summarize in couple word anyway

Last edited by grafspee; 10-07-2019 at 07:32 AM.
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