Valve Index Hands On

x1.4 on both vertical and horizontal is huge, it’s almost double the pixel load (196%). :huh:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3989063&postcount=560

Well, thanks for the tips - I hope the humidity here drops off enough tomorrow to spend some serious time trying things out.

When I left it today, the framerate was solid at 45fps - but this was with little going on and I'm sure once the explosions and multiple entities start coming into the picture, things would get slow again.

I seem to remember someone somewhere saying that motion smoothing should be set to off and I think mine is on, so that will get switched as well.

The rendered resolution for the headset was shown as 2016x2240 in SteamVR. Whether it stayed at this whilst DCS was running, I don't know. I meant to have a look at this data display for VR but forgot, so I'll add that to the list for tomorrow.

Oh - while I remember - I didn't notice any gare at all in the lenses - two missions were daytime, one was evening. The F/A-18C cockpit was okay (seems to have a contrast issue and I couldn't get a satisfactory result) - pretty similar to what I saw in the Rift S, and the Su-25 cockpit was very impressive in both. Once I had the contrast sorted in the AV-8 it looked fantastic. The SDE was most obvious in the Hornet, again, probably due to the contrast or lighting not being optimum. There was also an issue - couldn't work out if it was SDE or possibly mura, if I've correctly understood what that looks like, whilst looking out of the Hornet canopy. Like a smudge moving around as my head moved.

Well, thanks for the tips - I hope the humidity here drops off enough tomorrow to spend some serious time trying things out.

 

When I left it today, the framerate was solid at 45fps - but this was with little going on and I'm sure once the explosions and multiple entities start coming into the picture, things would get slow again.

 

I seem to remember someone somewhere saying that motion smoothing should be set to off and I think mine is on, so that will get switched as well.

 

The rendered resolution for the headset was shown as 2016x2240 in SteamVR. Whether it stayed at this whilst DCS was running, I don't know. I meant to have a look at this data display for VR but forgot, so I'll add that to the list for tomorrow.

I’m guessing you are set up in the garage.

x1.4 (or SteamVR 100% SS) is kind of a optimal value where the calculated rendertarget fits exactly the ppd of the panels. It's standard since 2016, had it on the Vive, Vive Pro and now the Index. Additionally, SteamVR does another "auto" setting if it detects a powerful GPU it raises SS even higher, for a 2080ti 150% for instance. This does work well, mostly with normal VR games, but has to be adjusted for more demanding ones (like Supmua wrote). The cool thing is, you have a lot of options with SteamVR and you can set SS per game in a second stage. I run DCS at standard 148% (settings under Video, 2452x2724) and 138% in Applikation: DCS.exe so my machine runs the game at 2880x3200 per eye. I also forced motion smoothing (45 fps), because the game will never run at 90 fps anyways. In graphics settings everything is on ultra (but no traffic, no antialiasing, no depth of field and motion blur).

x1.4 (or SteamVR 100% SS) is kind of a optimal value where the calculated rendertarget fits exactly the ppd of the panels. It's standard since 2016, had it on the Vive, Vive Pro and now the Index. Additionally, SteamVR does another "auto" setting if it detects a powerful GPU it raises SS even higher, for a 2080ti 150% for instance. This does work well, mostly with normal VR games, but has to be adjusted for more demanding ones (like Supmua wrote). The cool thing is, you have a lot of options with SteamVR and you can set SS per game in a second stage. I run DCS at standard 148% (settings under Video, 2452x2724) and 138% in Applikation: DCS.exe so my machine runs the game at 2880x3200 per eye. I also forced motion smoothing (45 fps), because the game will never run at 90 fps anyways. In graphics settings everything is on ultra (but no traffic, no antialiasing, no depth of field and motion blur).

What would you say are your greatest pet peeves when playing DCS in VR ?

I think I've found what the problem is, regarding the SDE - found this on Reddit (attached as it's someone else's screenshot/post)

I have what it shows on the right - but not continually, it goes in and out all the time. Think I need to get in touch with support, just in case.

Okay - I went for it and soooo glad I did! :D

 

 

"Poor blacks?" Nope!

 

"Glare?" Nope!

 

Some minor light waving about every now and again that I barely even noticed - maybe that's what people have been calling "glare" and complaining about? I don't know - but if that's it, I think they are being very pedantic.

 

:thumbup:

 

I wouldn't say 'pedantic' is fair maybe sensitive is a better term, those 2 issues are very clear & distracting in my headset to the point of some game situations being unplayable.

I think I've found what the problem is, regarding the SDE - found this on Reddit (attached as it's someone else's screenshot/post)

 

I have what it shows on the right - but not continually, it goes in and out all the time. Think I need to get in touch with support, just in case.

 

Oofff... man there are some sobering reddit threads surrounding that issue when you go down the rabbit hole (not to mention Valve support and possibly quality control). Hoping it’s not a catestrophic hardware problem requiring return to sender but some form of driver or synch thing - it doesn’t sound good tho. I’m thinking we’ll need to take the 30 day return policy timetable (read: evaluation period) pretty seriously upon receipt... bummer.

@Witulo

There is only one thing. Sometimes, all of a sudden, DCS struggles with executing scripts or certain events during missions and fps drop to the floor. The game really needs better CPU utilization... :(

I think I've found what the problem is, regarding the SDE - found this on Reddit (attached as it's someone else's screenshot/post)

 

I have what it shows on the right - but not continually, it goes in and out all the time. Think I need to get in touch with support, just in case.

 

:huh: Uh, that really looks like a panel problem. You definitely should contact support about it.

A quick question for Index users. The "double vision" issue that manifested with the Odyssey headsets and some others with DCS leading to the devs providing the "misalignment window" option, also impacted iRacing, most especially when using SPS.

iRacing users are reporting a different issues with the Index where objects are distorting (e.g. a building leaning) as they move their heads. Has anyone noticed anything similar here?

I wouldn't say 'pedantic' is fair maybe sensitive is a better term, those 2 issues are very clear & distracting in my headset to the point of some game situations being unplayable.

Probably - just meaning it regarding what's clear in my own headset. I did notice these things in Rift CV1, too - but they never bothered me.

If VR was decade or more old technology it would be a different story, but I see many complaints about things I consider par for the course on new technology. In this case, it will probably depend heavily on the exact situation, too (i.e. mission area, time of day, etc etc).

So far I've not noticed any glare worth getting worked up about in my headset (only tried Steam Home and DCS World).

I had a spare half hour this morning, so thought I'd just double check on that vertical lines issue. I definitely have it, unfortunately.

It comes and goes all the time, persistently.

I tried to capture it through the lens - didn't really succeed, but uploaded the video anyway - I'll keep doing these types of videos and see if I can get a decent recording at some stage.

Thing is, without the vertical lines, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend the Index for DCS World, it's just incredible, imho. Wish I had the money to buy better hardware to run it to full capacity - but that will come, eventually :)

I've only just uploaded the vid, so it may take a while to get to HD.

@Brixmis

From what i've read stocks are full now, so replacement should be quick. Post your RMA experience here.

Alec, I'm really hoping that I will be able to sort the issue somehow. As it's not something that is happening 100% of the time, maybe a tweak somewhere will allow it to be resolved.

I've been keeping my eye on the Index thread of the Oculus forum - and there's a guy there who has had this issue really badly since he got his Index - then yesterday when he started up, it had vanished and hasn't come back since. Fingers crossed.

I would try a complete clean out and reinstall and every possible combination of inputs and settings before giving up.

edit: Sorry, I forgot - @Gunnergolly - I would definitely recommend the Index over the Rift S, as long as the Index is one that works as intended, of course. The extra FoV for my IPD - horizontal and vertical - and the less noticable SDE (not the issue I'm having) would easily swing it.

I would say the only point where the Rift S comes out on top - unless you are determined on inside-out tracking/simplicity of set-up - is the weight. The Index feels very heavy in comparison to Rift S and CV1, but it is supported well by the headstraps. I hear that the Index with the Vive Deluxe Audio strap is excellent.

edit: Sorry, I forgot - @Gunnergolly - I would definitely recommend the Index over the Rift S, as long as the Index is one that works as intended, of course. The extra FoV for my IPD - horizontal and vertical - and the less noticable SDE (not the issue I'm having) would easily swing it.

 

I would say the only point where the Rift S comes out on top - unless you are determined on inside-out tracking/simplicity of set-up - is the weight. The Index feels very heavy in comparison to Rift S and CV1, but it is supported well by the headstraps. I hear that the Index with the Vive Deluxe Audio strap is excellent.

Thanks, the Index certainly sounds nice and i hope you get to the bottom of your SDE problem.

It's a toss up between the Index or the Reverb, however i don't think i would touch a Reverb for at least another three months hopefully by then they will have sorted out the issues.

The extra FOV and the adjustable IPD is what appeals with the Index, my IPD is about 67 and i find the Rift S FOV a bit goggle like. I will probably stick with the Rift S a bit longer and maybe let the Index and Reverb mature a little more.

Just as a matter of interest what's your thoughts on the spotting of distance objects ?, i really struggle with the Rift S and hope this has been improved on with the Index and Reverb.

@Gunnergolly - if my hardware was a bit more potent, I would probably have bought a Reverb, too, but that was what discounted it for me.

It's difficult to comment accurately on the spotting - but when I started the Hornet A/A Radar Qualification mission I had no issues at all spotting the aircraft I was supposed to find and lock up on the radar. I didn't think about it at the time, as I was just looking at the framerates, but yes, it was better than I remember on the CV1, but I can't say about S because I didn't do any air to air missions when I had the S.

At that time I had a mod installed, anyway, to make spotting easier - now I have a clean 2.5.5 install, so even better for the Index spotting.

@Digital Engine - yup, fully understand that. Having tried and tested two of the headsets this year, I was really keen to see something that was up to snuff - so there was no way I was letting the Index pass me by without having a go.

But for each one, it was always my intention to just buy first, use the time available to test and see if I wanted to keep or return and then go from there. That's the good thing these days - you can buy without worrying you'll end up with a dud.

So far tried this with my Index:

1: Test multiple VR apps/games - so far: DCS World 2.5.5 release; Arizona Sunshie; Pinball FX2 VR;

2: Different USB3 socket/hub (from Inatek to Mobo port and back when no change))

3: Checked Steam & SteamVR for updates - none

4: Enable SteamVR Beta - *later updated to 1.6.8

5: Headset firmware updated (new update)

6: Different display port output (didn't work first attempt)

7: Motion smoothing on & off

8: Uninstall driver with DDU & reinstall v431.60

9: Uninstall v431.60 with DDU & install v430..86

10: Run GPU at standard clock rates.

11: Verify SteamVR

12: Uninstall (clean/complete) SteamVR and Reinstall

13: Swap graphics card

It's still there, and still very obvious. I've sent support a report and will wait to see what they have to say. I'll keep using it while I wait :)

 

It's difficult to comment accurately on the spotting - but when I started the Hornet A/A Radar Qualification mission I had no issues at all spotting the aircraft I was supposed to find and lock up on the radar. I didn't think about it at the time, as I was just looking at the framerates, but yes, it was better than I remember on the CV1, but I can't say about S because I didn't do any air to air missions when I had the S.

 

I think when you try dogfighting you will see a huge benefit to this headset as instead of having to rotate your head 360 degrees in a cv1 & pull all your neck muscles you can just use your eyes.

Aurelius, yes it's the most advanced HMD atm. Feature-rich instead of feature-less...

I think when you try dogfighting you will see a huge benefit to this headset as instead of having to rotate your head 360 degrees in a cv1 & pull all your neck muscles you can just use your eyes.

Doesn’t the Index still have a pretty narrow FOV compared to the wide options like Pimax?

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Doesn’t the Index still have a pretty narrow FOV compared to the wide options like Pimax?

 

 

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compared to Pimax.

Coming from a cv1 its a good bump up & remember there is more clarity & focus across the fov & the vertical FOV is increased quite noticeably & this is more what i use when dogfighting rather than horizontal in warbirds.

Yes, I can't see too many people thinking the Rift S is a better overall headset than the Index, issues aside of course. Price is another matter, and whether it's worth what's asked.

I am not by any means well off, but I put aside the cash for the Index as soon as I heard it was being released, even though at that time I didn't know if I would be getting one. I definitely don't feel that it's too much, now I have one. I had to forgo several other things in order to buy it.

I've been trying out several titles and sims and I have to say, it's been very impressive. I also like the controllers, although there is one thing I don't like, which is the positioning of the UI switch (which is also used to activate the controllers). Using them in shooters that have been optimised for Knuckles is great fun and much more intuitive than Touch - which is still my favourite due to comfort and not being able to accidentally press things that will make me die repeatedly!

Unfortunately, as with CV1 - DCS World 2.5 is the exception as far as performance goes. I'm hoping to give 1.5.8 a try later today and see how it goes, just for reference. I'd prefer to have 2.5 running like 1.5.8 did in VR, but I think that's a way off, if it will ever be possible.

I also finally saw some nasty glare - probably what nrosko was talking about. However, I only get it in high-contrast situations, i.e. menus. Black background with white text gives very bad glare around the lens and if this was the normal state of play and a fix wasn't readily available, my headset would be being returned.

However, white on black menus are the only time I see glare - the rest of the time, it's not apparent at all. I saw someone on a VR forum who was going to return their Index due to unacceptable glare - but after a couple of weeks, they had a play around adjusting the fit, and it disappeared. They ended up keeping it.

When I had a CV1 I really couldn't understand all the nay-saying about gauges and how impossible they were to read without zooming or leaning in, because I just did not have that problem. The only cockpits I had trouble reading in VR were ones I had trouble reading on a monitor screen. I put that down to fit adjustment, as well. I also use prescription lenses, which may account for it a bit, too, as they probably magnify the image somewhat.

What I would say, in summary, is if you have been concerned about the horror stories and so-on about the Index and have been holding back - just go for it. You can always send it back if you don't like it, but believe me, it's a great headset and well worth trying out.

Just ordered the WidmoVR prescription lenses (74 Euro/£69) - I'll report back on how I find them.

I've been using the VR Lens headband version so far - but I'm not doing so well with them, comfort and fogging-wise, in the Index. The fixed VR Lens Labs ones I had for CV1 were excellent.

Anyone know if it will work with Win7? (I know min specs are win10)

Anyone know if it will work with Win7? (I know min specs are win10)

As far as I know it is not supported by Valve as MS has stopped their official support for Win7 gaming. That doesn't mean that it won't work but I'm not sure.