[WIP] DIY Rudder pedals - design input wanted - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-31-2017, 07:30 AM   #1
FIN_Centurion1
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Default [WIP] DIY Rudder pedals - design input wanted

Hey guys,
After getting to use some rudder pedals I decided my simming really needed some proper ones, and spending 100€ on a set of plastic ones didn't really seem like money well spent. I tried my friends Thrustmaster pedals and they really lacked the feeling and tactile response I was looking for, so I scoured the net for DIY and professional level projects to get inspiration.

I got an educational version of Inventor Pro 2018 and started tinkering, mind you I am NOT an engineer nor do I have any product design experience. I do not have access to fancy machining equipment either, but I am in the middle of a house renovation (the stressful part is over, thank god) so I have a lot of wood working equipment.

The BF109 style pedals seemed like a good place to start. Since I do not have metal machining experience or equipment I needed to use sturdy enough parts of massive wood and I really didn't fancy doing it all out of plywood because I don't like how that looks. I have some 28x28mm left over from a kitchen shelf project and it seems sturdy enough to work as the arms. I plan on having 8x22mm ball bearings on most of the pivot points, I think 8mm bolts will be sturdy enough as axles. For centering I thought the cam with follower seemed like a good idea - the bad news is I have no idea how to properly design said cam. The fairly massive one you see in the renderings are just me SWAGin it. But basically centering is by a spring loaded arm and a ball bearing follower moving against the cam. The spring is missing from the pics because I couldnt figure out how to make a spring yet in Inventor
The pedals will have some small gas shocks on them.

Electronics wise I will start out with a discarded logitech 3d pro - it has three axis I can use - but will go down the leo bodnar route eventually. Still haven't decided if I want to just go leo bodnar straight away, hall sensors would be easier to mount I guess. The sensors and mountings are still missing from the drawing, since I haven't quite decided what I want to do yet. I also have trouble conceptualizing how to best mount pot sensors.

I am also considering a cheap motorcycle steering damper to add additional tactile feel, like this one for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Mo...-/282615215834

So, any input is appreciated, I figure if I do the design work properly first building it will be a lot faster and easier on the nerves
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:02 PM   #2
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Quote:
Still haven't decided if I want to just go leo bodnar straight away, hall sensors would be easier to mount I guess.
You don't need Bodnar controller for use HALL sensor, the Logitech circuit could be used, for controller HALL sensor is like a potentiometer.

For use HALL sensor is important that rudder main pivoting points use ball bearings, as the sensor can detect the minimal undesired lateral movement of rudder bar, disturbing the axis response.

Notice that the "CAM" profile could not be symmetric, due the change in angle of the spring lever.

This circle in the middle of CAM will create a expressive "bump" in center position.

IMO - Bodnar controller is overkill for make a rudder pedals, today could be used the more affordable Arduinos.
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Old 08-31-2017, 03:17 PM   #3
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Thanks for the input!
I guess I'll have to score some Hall sensors then and see.. I read alot about the Arduinos but the Leo Bodnar seems more plug and play.

Regarding the cam profile, I read that earlier about not being symmetrical but I have no idea how to design it properly, I guess I will have to go a bit by trial and error. I am away at work so I have a good week or so to perfect the design before I go building it.
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Old 09-04-2017, 10:37 AM   #4
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I tweaked the design now, the cam profile is no longer symmetrical and is closer now to what it should be, the arm moves more or less equally on both sides. I ordered the steering damper and the gas shocks on ebay, shipping time was not fast but I got time

Now I need to integrate the steering damper
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:02 AM   #5
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Why do you want some form of centring cam??

Just use damper(s) for your left/right rudder.

Not surprising about the controller although I am not sure about Leo Bodnar or maybe do some HID programming on an Arduino.

My mods of a 3D pro so far

I'm also developing a toque pedal design as well as a better cyclic.
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:17 PM   #6
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I got the idea from other devices, many more professional level products seem to use them to get a crisp centering feel, so you know when you are centered which is more important in fixed wing flying. If you want to get rid of the centering you just unhook the spring.
With the steering damper you still get a feel for of feedback. I hope it just aint too stiff / sluggish.

here is a pic of the first integration of the steering damper, and also a picture of my previous project, which was a very ad hoc helo sim controller made out of a discarded logitech 3d pro also + some other bits and bobs i found lying around. It worked reasonably but really was without any kind of feeling which was off putting, also the mechanical parts had too much play. So now I am trying to get a nice smooth operation this time around, I will probably at some point make a stick and collective too, perhaps a throttle to create a nice dual use home cockpit (fixed/rotary wing)

Your project looks cool, some good ideas for when I get around to doing a new collective stick.
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Old 09-04-2017, 01:49 PM   #7
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Why you don't make the foot rest in "combat" style pedals, with heels on floor?

http://i.imgur.com/fGqQgSR.jpg

I suspect this wood structure pivots will result a bit flimsy with foots over with this "Bf 109" style foot rest.

BTW - If you reduced the size of "parallelogram" achieve more turn over sensor:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.ph...ls#Post3990867

Pedals without a kind of center system only if you plan use exclusive for helicopters.

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Old 09-04-2017, 03:31 PM   #8
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Thanks Sokol, those are some good ideas and good links. I will think about reducing my paralellogram, but I have faith that massive wood will be good enough. If not, redesign is not a problem really.
Also nice bonus about the MLX90363 sensor - seems like a real winner. I will order both the MLX 3d hall as well as a set of normal A1302 hall sensors, and arduino UNO r3 and a 16 Bit I2C ADS1115 Module ADC 4 channel with Pro Gain Amplifier for Arduino RPi. Decided to go the Arduino path since it seems to be the least expensive way. I sure have ordered a shitload of stuff now Need to study the Arduino now - how to make it work.

EDIT: to clarify I made some measurments in Inventor, my rudder pedals have a travel range of 35 degrees, that equals a distance/travel of about 23cm at full deflection (from pedal lower edge to edge). The rotor arms are from pedal unit pivot to pivot 44cm, wider than most commercial pedals but not excessive - or is it? A shorter rotor would certainly place less risk of bending and breaking of the rotor arm...

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Old 09-06-2017, 09:12 PM   #9
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Another day, another design - Sokols sage advice had me seriously consider heels on ground pedals and started sketching on a design. Not pretty, especially the long 8mm threaded rods I'd use to offset the pedal from the mechanism.. Hmm
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Old 09-07-2017, 07:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FIN_Centurion1 View Post
Another day, another design - Sokols sage advice had me seriously consider heels on ground pedals and started sketching on a design. Not pretty, especially the long 8mm threaded rods I'd use to offset the pedal from the mechanism.. Hmm
Hi,

Building the pedals of wood is ok in my opininon, but I would oversize the bearings. The problem with wood that it doesn`t take much surface pressure without local deformation. The small bearings deliver a high surface load onto the wood which will wear out quickly and your bearings will go loose.

So you need to minimize surface pressure by increasing the contact area. Use large OD and wide bearings in a hardwood base. Sokol`s idea is great to rest your heels on the floor instead on the pedals, so the vertical load on the mechanism will be lower.

Making a CAM mechanism of wood has the same challange. The CAM roller has a tiny contact area with the CAM plate. Combine it with a high springload and you will have a very high surface pressure on the CAM plate. The roller will wear out the wood pretty quickly.

Good luck!
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