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Trees Literally Get in the Way


Tumbleweed

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Hi,

 

Anyone know what's going on with the trees in Combined Arms (currently running 1.5 OB)?

 

I'm finding them to be a PITA when playing against AI even when AI is set to average experience. The problem is, the trees offer me or my units no cover what so ever. All they do is obscure my view so I can't fire back at the AI who on the other hand can see me as clear as day.

 

Is there anything I can do about this myself, maybe I've missed a setting or is this something that's being looked at with the game?

 

 

Cheers. :thumbup:

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This is a very old and well-known issue. ED is looking into making trees non-see through for EDGE but the tricky part is doing it so that it will minimize impact on game performance. Seeing how just shadows impact performance, it will be interesting to see how ED handles tree collision models and non-transparency.

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Thanks.

 

That's cool. Just so long as it's not something I've missed in the settings :D

 

Obviously it's all good when it's Human V Human but the SP against the AI is proving difficult. Even on average skill, I just poked my tank out from behind a building thinking the trees would offer some cover and BOOM I'm instantly spotted and then dead lol.

 

Hope they can figure someting out that doesn't drag performance down.

My Hangar: P-51D Mustang - KA-50 Blackshark - A-10C Warthog - F-86F Sabre - FC3 - Combined Arms - UH-1H

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  • 4 weeks later...
Thanks.

 

That's cool. Just so long as it's not something I've missed in the settings :D

 

Obviously it's all good when it's Human V Human but the SP against the AI is proving difficult. Even on average skill, I just poked my tank out from behind a building thinking the trees would offer some cover and BOOM I'm instantly spotted and then dead lol.

 

Hope they can figure someting out that doesn't drag performance down.

 

 

Well, it should really be performance hit as the hitboxes needs to be calculated only between line of sight and it ain't needed to be too accurate for immersion purposes. Just because considering how different other games with thousands of units and objects manages to make the hitboxes for everything. Like you don't need to calculate any LOS on area that is not needed.

 

 

The main problem really is that trees are currently glass. So even human players can just fire through them or pilots get to cheat as FLIR and other targeting systems can track the targets just fine most of the time when they should lose the tracking when obstacle comes between them and the tracked target.

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  • 3 weeks later...

There was a similar thread that discovered a couple flags that appeared to be set to false by default (also after every update they get reset to false); these flags appear to affect the AI ground units LOS vs other ground units (doesn't work against air units). It worked in 1.2.x and I checked it out in 1.5.x and it still seems to be working, so give it a try.

 

If you look in the following folder in your DCS installation path:

 

..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\AI

 

Edit the following lua script file: Detection.lua

 

You will see the following section near the top:

 

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = false,

trees_LOS_test = false,

 

If you set the last two flags to true, AI units will not detect you if you are behind buildings (objects_LOS_test = true), or if you are behind/within blocks of trees (trees_LOS_test = true). This latter flag appears to treat a whole block of trees as one large object that can't been seen through. It also allows you to hide in the trees and move to the edge of the tree "block" and fire from within. Once you move outside of some invisible line on the edge the AI units will then detect you and fire on you.

 

Hopefully they will continue to support this "feature" in 2.0 until they fix it the proper way, which I presume would be to treat smaller sets of trees as individual objects that can't be seen through. Until then, this work around is much better when working against AI. Before I found that thread I was very discouraged playing CA vs AI.

 

Have fun!

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There was a similar thread that discovered a couple flags that appeared to be set to false by default (also after every update they get reset to false); these flags appear to affect the AI ground units LOS vs other ground units (doesn't work against air units). It worked in 1.2.x and I checked it out in 1.5.x and it still seems to be working, so give it a try.

 

If you look in the following folder in your DCS installation path:

 

..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\AI

 

Edit the following lua script file: Detection.lua

 

You will see the following section near the top:

 

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = false,

trees_LOS_test = false,

 

If you set the last two flags to true, AI units will not detect you if you are behind buildings (objects_LOS_test = true), or if you are behind/within blocks of trees (trees_LOS_test = true). This latter flag appears to treat a whole block of trees as one large object that can't been seen through. It also allows you to hide in the trees and move to the edge of the tree "block" and fire from within. Once you move outside of some invisible line on the edge the AI units will then detect you and fire on you.

 

Hopefully they will continue to support this "feature" in 2.0 until they fix it the proper way, which I presume would be to treat smaller sets of trees as individual objects that can't be seen through. Until then, this work around is much better when working against AI. Before I found that thread I was very discouraged playing CA vs AI.

 

Have fun!

 

Hey, that's awesome work. I'll give that a try.

 

Many many thanks for sharing :thumbup:

My Hangar: P-51D Mustang - KA-50 Blackshark - A-10C Warthog - F-86F Sabre - FC3 - Combined Arms - UH-1H

My Flying Adventures: www.dcs-pilot.com :pilotfly:

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  • 1 month later...
There was a similar thread that discovered a couple flags that appeared to be set to false by default (also after every update they get reset to false); these flags appear to affect the AI ground units LOS vs other ground units (doesn't work against air units). It worked in 1.2.x and I checked it out in 1.5.x and it still seems to be working, so give it a try.

 

If you look in the following folder in your DCS installation path:

 

..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\AI

 

Edit the following lua script file: Detection.lua

 

You will see the following section near the top:

 

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = false,

trees_LOS_test = false,

 

If you set the last two flags to true, AI units will not detect you if you are behind buildings (objects_LOS_test = true), or if you are behind/within blocks of trees (trees_LOS_test = true). This latter flag appears to treat a whole block of trees as one large object that can't been seen through. It also allows you to hide in the trees and move to the edge of the tree "block" and fire from within. Once you move outside of some invisible line on the edge the AI units will then detect you and fire on you.

 

Hopefully they will continue to support this "feature" in 2.0 until they fix it the proper way, which I presume would be to treat smaller sets of trees as individual objects that can't be seen through. Until then, this work around is much better when working against AI. Before I found that thread I was very discouraged playing CA vs AI.

 

Have fun!

 

What APP/program did you use to edit the .lua file?

 

Frank

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  • ED Team
Seriously, if it's that simple - 2 lines of lua script, why hasn't it been done before or embedded into current builds as a temp measure until a longer term solution? Is there a reason?

 

It may cause problems elsewhere, or just be a feature they are testing and developing.

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Don't know what Relentov used ofcourse, but on these forums Notepad++ is often recommended.

 

I use Notepad++ as well - you could use most any text editor but Notepad++ is nice because it color codes the contents if it recognizes the programming language the file is written in (e.g. based on the file suffix).

 

Based on Sith's hint, it appears there's no final word yet on this issue, so hopefully they will eventually incorporate this into the AI logic permanently instead of these being test switches we can turn on and off. It is a pain to have to keep resetting the values back to true after each update :).

 

Hey Sith, assuming this is you from the Forgotten Skies days? Good to see you mate.

 

S! Relent

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There was a similar thread that discovered a couple flags that appeared to be set to false by default (also after every update they get reset to false); these flags appear to affect the AI ground units LOS vs other ground units (doesn't work against air units). It worked in 1.2.x and I checked it out in 1.5.x and it still seems to be working, so give it a try.

 

If you look in the following folder in your DCS installation path:

 

..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\AI

 

Edit the following lua script file: Detection.lua

 

You will see the following section near the top:

 

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = false,

trees_LOS_test = false,

 

If you set the last two flags to true, AI units will not detect you if you are behind buildings (objects_LOS_test = true), or if you are behind/within blocks of trees (trees_LOS_test = true). This latter flag appears to treat a whole block of trees as one large object that can't been seen through. It also allows you to hide in the trees and move to the edge of the tree "block" and fire from within. Once you move outside of some invisible line on the edge the AI units will then detect you and fire on you.

 

Hopefully they will continue to support this "feature" in 2.0 until they fix it the proper way, which I presume would be to treat smaller sets of trees as individual objects that can't be seen through. Until then, this work around is much better when working against AI. Before I found that thread I was very discouraged playing CA vs AI.

 

Have fun!

 

Great find! I found it so frustrating to be seen by AI while hidden behind structures or inside a forest. Now even more, because AGM-65's changed trajectory provides kills for AI planes when you're behind even two to three story buildings.

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  • 4 months later...
Great find! I found it so frustrating to be seen by AI while hidden behind structures or inside a forest. Now even more, because AGM-65's changed trajectory provides kills for AI planes when you're behind even two to three story buildings.

 

Did you notice Relentov said it only work for ground units?

 

By the way, someone got problems with integrity checking for MP servers?


Edited by pepin1234

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  • 2 months later...

that would be interesting to know (the integritycheckthing)

 

And what Sithspawn said:"It may cause problems elsewhere, or just be a feature they are testing and developing."

--- can we get some "official" information on that ?

 

if it is a feature to be tested, i would test the shit out of it. :joystick:

 

... of course not if the feature is obsolete with the new Caucasus map and collidable trees and the "see through" of the AI allready fixed ^^

 

(this topic is very interesting for us because we are working on a MP mission with CA and this "one sided seethrough feature" is a speedbumb for us and does seriously impact the gameplay)

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  • 4 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...
There was a similar thread that discovered a couple flags that appeared to be set to false by default (also after every update they get reset to false); these flags appear to affect the AI ground units LOS vs other ground units (doesn't work against air units). It worked in 1.2.x and I checked it out in 1.5.x and it still seems to be working, so give it a try.

 

If you look in the following folder in your DCS installation path:

 

..\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World OpenBeta\Scripts\AI

 

Edit the following lua script file: Detection.lua

 

You will see the following section near the top:

 

visual_detection = {

terrain_LOS_test = true,

Earth_curvature_LOS_test = true,

objects_LOS_test = false,

trees_LOS_test = false,

 

If you set the last two flags to true, AI units will not detect you if you are behind buildings (objects_LOS_test = true), or if you are behind/within blocks of trees (trees_LOS_test = true). This latter flag appears to treat a whole block of trees as one large object that can't been seen through. It also allows you to hide in the trees and move to the edge of the tree "block" and fire from within. Once you move outside of some invisible line on the edge the AI units will then detect you and fire on you.

 

Hopefully they will continue to support this "feature" in 2.0 until they fix it the proper way, which I presume would be to treat smaller sets of trees as individual objects that can't be seen through. Until then, this work around is much better when working against AI. Before I found that thread I was very discouraged playing CA vs AI.

 

Have fun!

 

Thanks! This works perfectly.

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Trying to use the gazelle is a headache because you can get shot down by laser guided sniper 11 atgms through the trees you are trying to hide behind.

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  • 2 months later...

This lua change works REALLY well. Had a string of tanks move towards each other in trees. They drove past, even around each other in order to pass, without firing a shot.

 

Moved both groups out of the trees and they engaged normally.

 

So, don't try to make any engagements in trees, and you should be good. Just make sure to move forces out of the trees if you want them to engage anything.

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