Tactics against F-14B / AIM-54

Hello fellas!

After frustratingly many losses against those mighty AIM-54s, what are your tactics to survive a 1-on-1 scenario?

Notching, more notching and finally more notching. Throw some chaff in for good measure.

This might also help:

Edit: Keep in mind that it is an active missile and that it will reacquire if you stop notching. So do not get over excited if you break lock once. Keep doing it. :)

Turn & Run

Thanks FortunateSon! Really cool stuff once again coming from GrowlingSidewinder!

Once TWS is implemented and Slammers then work as they should, things will improve somewhat.

The thing does up to Mach 5. You won't outrun that sucker...

Also, your RWR only lights up once the missile goes Pitbull (active) as the F14 have TWS already.

If you hear the warning the thing has already closed half the distance. Notching really is your only hope.

Or hiding behind a mountain to break lock.

True.

Currently, the F14 pilots are all too eager with their AIM54 and launch long distance and tend to launch multiple times.

Notching works really well and you can often get them to launch on you multiple times. If you defeat the missiles and manage to close the distance somewhat in the meantime, they are often caught pants down as they launched all Phoenix. Then, you can get an AMRAAM shot with good probability of splash.

Be lower than him to increase ground clutter and notch.

The F14 is very suceptible to notching in pulse Doppler mode. If you notch, you force the RIO to go into pulse mode.

Pulse mode is immune to notching but cannot look down, as it has no ground clutter filter (that’s the Doppler part). So if you are forcing him to look down while notching, you are exploiting both weaknesses.

So far they don't seem difficult to kill if you can get within 15nm. That's a big if.

I think it's worth taking a little time to practice missile evasion, first things first. Doesn't take a lot of time. Practice your split S, which is very handy; and your barrel roll, which comes in handy in a pinch. Practice notching, although personally I find it difficult to notch six missiles. Learn to pat yourself on the back for getting back to base alive in MP.

The key I think is to be just a little less persistent than the Tomcat drivers.

Use alot of terrain masking and don't overload on missiles due to the increased drag. I've had better luck interrogating Tomcat's in the F-15 than in the Hornet just because of acceleration and have gotten close enough to pop a few AMRAAM shots off.

One particular thing I noticed is that - seemingly to some bug - there is a bit of a delay between what's supposedly the impact and the actual destruction ensuing. Long enough to notice at least.

Twice already I thought to have narrowly missed one of those things only to die almost a second later, both confirmed with the other pilot that I did not get hit by second missile.

My point being: don't relax too soon.

Because of a bug the aim 54 is always pitbull.

wait until it runs out of Phoenix missiles.... or if running airquake servers, balance by removing phoenix missiles.

Seriously without Aim54, the F14 isnt that scary. Basically not anymore than a F15C would be limited to just Aim9s and Aim7's. Fulcrums and Flankers can give tomcats serious trouble especially once Merged.

Notching, more notching and finally more notching. Throw some chaff in for good measure.

 

This might also help:

 

 

 

Edit: Keep in mind that it is an active missile and that it will reacquire if you stop notching. So do not get over excited if you break lock once. Keep doing it. :)

Yea notching works well if know you've been hard locked, and therefore properly react to incoming threat.

With TWS mode already working for the Tomcat it makes things more tricky since you have to operate on presumptions. But either way being attacked from such long range and being forced to go defense far long before you are in killing range of a tomcat is going to be an annoyance. Especially since the F14 is essentially the Flavour of the month, thus everyone and their mothers will be flying it in the near term future.

A mixed team of F14 and Hornets? Yea a bad time to be Opforce pilot :D

Well, it hasnt been said yet in Flanker you can try shoot the missile with EOS and IR missiles. The problem is you're in trouble if the shooter spams you with more than one phoenix.

Have the days of the F-15's rain finally come to end for FC3 noobs seeking easy kills? Oh how glorious!

Ok so my tactics being employed with some levels of success whilst in the Hornet.....

For me the key is trying to pick them up sooner, easier with E3 present on SA datalink however even with for me its working the radar on Barcap missions, constantly scanning and using the different azimuths of the radar to analyse the battle space. Any contact interrogate with sensor depress to attain status hostile/friendly/unknown and build the picture in your head of what's where.

As soon as i get spiked by an F14 from hostile airspace i start to go defensive, do not wait for the solid lock time on RWR as they launch TWS. The majority of players i've come up against are using them from altitude and long stand off ranges with generally a ripple shot of 2 or even 3 missiles (outside our Aim120 engagement zone). The Aim54 encase some people don't know has or rather had its own active radar that switches on circa half the launch distance from the host aircarft.

On being spiked on RWR by an F14 I generally visually look out to the 60 degree port / starboard and make a quick judgement call on which has better topography. If this lasts for longer than 5 seconds i switch radar to silent and if E2/E3 keep reviewing SA page. Immediately make the aggressive beam and don't waste chaff initially, get down to the deck asap in a steep dive (changing your aspect whilst doing so) and notch on the beam track to ensure radar lock is broke asap. When i mean low, you need to put mountain ridges, or any topography above your cockpit window and get close to the valley wall nearest the attacking aircraft! This will break the lock. If flat below then increase the beam to 90 and get down to literally tree level and look for any sign of relief.

As your beaming the F14 distance will be closing (which is what we want). If you hear the missile warning go off then increase the beam to 90 and full afterburner and start to chaff after about 15 seconds. Hopefully by this stage your in the mountains and if radar lock is broke the key then is to start weaving back to the F14 origin point, reference your position from a fixed point (bullseye/waypoint - i do wish DCS would code and make the mark button work on HSI) and then calculate the contact distance point, work on a third to 40% of the distance from your original engagement zone on the basis the F14 is still hostile and seeking.

Keep notching through the topography at deck level, rolling inverted as you go over ridges to get the nose back down quickly to avoid the powerful F14 radar (i find this really helps cut down on the spikes and should be used as a key tactic on any defensive approach). At this point you might be getting random spikes from the F14 which is good as it gives you a reference point that your still on course. However if its more than literally a bleep then beam again from that point.

There are then 2 options when travelled around 40% of the distance, you can switch radar back on, shifting the radar azimuth upwards and look for a fox 3 shot from low down, or continue to near merge and use the Aim9x seeker head to search for targets using the eye reticle in the HMS. If you get a lock for fox 3, even if the parameters are not ideal then still launch - it will give him something to think about and force him defensive beam which will allow you to come up if he's a single and get a better fox 3 solution.

If they have retained their altitude and not come down to the mud I've actually managed to fly near enough directly under the F14 with my nose cold, pull vertical, full burner and fox 2 up the tailpipes, handy if the AIM9x is not allowed.

What i would say is ground clutter and breaking radar is the key. Do not attempt to stay at altitude with chaff, you will be toast. There is a reason why in the RW pilots train for fast low altitude mountain flight, especially bomber crews because the ground is your best, and worst friend. During the red flag expertises in the late 1970's and 1980's much to the frustration of the F15/F14 crews found it almost impossible to achieve and maintain a missile lock for launch on much older RAF strike Buccaneers due to the low level penetration flights utilising the ground and hard notching. Granted in doing so we lost 2 aircrew (Pilot and WSO) due to CFIT. Tornado crews employed the same tactics re ground clutter, you only have to look at the Gulf War and whilst defending a missile (Some dispute whether Sam or A2A) sadly another crew had a CFIT incident.

Lastly i must add, its been an absolute pleasure to see the new F14 module in DCS, i've not purchased it myself as yet as not sure on how i would enjoy the jester AI and keep having to navigate it but i am enjoying the challenge of going against these great aircraft. Hats off to Heatblur the visuals of them look amazing when flying alongside them, also from the carrier launch with the pilot details etc if alongside in the CAT.

much to the frustration of the F15/F14 crews found it almost impossible to achieve and maintain a missile lock for launch on much older RAF strike Buccaneers due to the low level penetration flights utilising the ground and hard notching. Granted in doing so we lost 2 aircrew (Pilot and WSO) due to CFIT. Tornado crews employed the same tactics re ground clutter, you only have to look at the Gulf War and whilst defending a missile (Some dispute whether Sam or A2A) sadly another crew had a CFIT incident.

I think one of those wasn't so much controlled flight, it was a main wing spar breaking off, which grounded the fleet for a while... but that's off topic, great to bring the Buccaneer in though, would be a fun full module to have in DCS :)

Turn & Run

Good luck. The 54 can catch up to you at 15 miles+, and the 14 is much faster...

My understanding of the AIM-54 was that it was designed for downing (then) Soviet bombers at long distance.

Big aircraft incoming.

I've never heard of it being utilized against fighter sized aircraft.

Seems to be a misuse of the intended design to me.

For me, this is a negative to the suspension of reality.

One particular thing I noticed is that - seemingly to some bug - there is a bit of a delay between what's supposedly the impact and the actual destruction ensuing. Long enough to notice at least.

Twice already I thought to have narrowly missed one of those things only to die almost a second later, both confirmed with the other pilot that I did not get hit by second missile.

My point being: don't relax too soon.

i've noticed this as well, the missile will fly past you and then you'll explode a full second later

my guess is that, given heatblur's record of overmodeling features with their own custom code, the phoenix's proximity fuze simulation runs in an auxiliary processing stack which is not tightly synchronized with the main simulation. afaik no other missile in the game has a modeled proximity fuze

it's worth mentioning that if you notch the missile, it will go ballistic and fly to the last calculated intercept point. if you do not change speed or heading there's a chance it'll clip you without radar lock

I've never heard of it being utilized against fighter sized aircraft.

 

 

Seems to be a misuse of the intended design to me.

 

 

For me, this is a negative to the suspension of reality.

It maybe was designed for defending carrier fleets but it wasn't it's sole purpose (an other purpose is to shoot down the incoming anti-ship missles if the bombers could launch them - very small and fast targets).

In fact it was never used against bomber fleets in real life. Only against fighters like Mig-23, Mig-25 launched from US Air Force F-14 and against Mig-21 from iranian air force F-14A.

Don’t worry about the aim 54 no one on the F14 side can figure out how to get Jester to shoot it....:joystick:

I think the hit % of the current DCS Aim54 is a bit too good. The Aim54 wasn't a very good missile, not hitting the intended targets the few times they were fired from US F14's during their time in service. The Iranian AF boasted a pile of kills with the 54, but who's to say those numbers aren't inflated.

The 54 has the range advantage, but the missile doesn't go pitbull till its about 10nm. The 120C is a superior ordinance. Just take away the 14's range advantage and get the fight to within 40nm and the advantage goes to the Hornet. Force the 14 to go defensive disrupting the INS cues the 54 is getting from the 14 while you close the gap. You should pick up the 54 on your rwr once it goes active with enough time to notch the missile.

My understanding of the AIM-54 was that it was designed for downing (then) Soviet bombers at long distance.

 

 

 

Big aircraft are incoming.

 

 

I've never heard of it being utilized against fighter-sized aircraft.

 

 

Seems to be a misuse of the intended design to me.

 

 

For me, this is a negative to the suspension of reality.

It was during the 90's by US 14's in both Iraqi conflicts. The few times it was fired they didn't strike their targets - I think a mig23 miss and a mig25 miss. The Iranian AF claimed 84 plus kills against various airframes during the Iraqi/Iranian conflict, but I'd take those numbers with a grain of salt. There is a good reason the missile isn't made anymore. The 120C and especially the D are both superior.