Wishlist for potential planes after JF-17 - ED Forums
 


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View Poll Results: Please read the post below first before vote
J-5A 15 9.43%
J-6III 5 3.14%
J-7G 36 22.64%
J-8E 20 12.58%
J-8F 88 55.35%
Q-5III 29 18.24%
Q-5D 42 26.42%
H-5 28 17.61%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 159. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-18-2019, 05:11 PM   #1
J-20
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Question Wishlist for potential planes after JF-17

Thanks for developers in Deka team, we are getting closer and closer to the release of the long-waited JF-17. It also appears that the Deka team do plan to develop more modules in the future after the JF-17. So I have put a list together for the potential planes for the future project
All planes below are either withdraw from the service or about to withdraw from the service. So I don't think there is any "classified" issue.

Before I started to introduce you with Chinese's own unique planes and their distinctive variant of Soviet planes, I would like to tell you that you can vote multiple aircrafts, not just one.

1: J-5A
The Chinese variant of MiG-17PF.
Selling points:
a) There is no MiG-17 module in DCS.
b) Unlike the Soviet MiG-17 variants, between the radar, missiles, and cannons, you can only have 2 of them, but never all of them. For example: MiG-17F has missile and cannon, but no radar; MiG-17PF has radar, cannon but no missiles; and MiG-17PM has missile and radar but no cannon.
But for J-5A (please see picture below), it has 3x23mm, a radar and 2 hardpoints for PL-1(K-5) and PL-1B(K-55) missiles.



Some documents actually suggest that J-5A can carry 4 K-55 missiles just like a MiG-17PM.
The reason for that is because contrary to popular belief, J-5A wasn't a complete copy of MiG-17PM. During the Sino-Soviet split, Soviet withdraw their tech assistance in an effort pressurize China politically. At the time, China wanted an proper all weather fighter, and to do so without Soviet assistance, they had to research into their own way. Firstly, they started with an old variant of J-5 (A copy of MiG-17F which they do know how to built), took its rear half of the body and then used MiG-17PM as a reference to develop the frontal half of the plane. Since they didn't have model of MiG-17PM, they had to develop the frontal half through trials and error. Therefore, although the frontal half of the J-5A looks very much like a MiG-17PM, its endoskeleton could be completely different. Since they had only been using the MiG-17PM as a reference rather than a model to copy, the Chinese kept the cannon armament.

A total of 124 J-5A were produced.



Merit:
In 9th of April, 1965, a J-5A shot down a F-4 from the US navy.





2: J-6III
Selling points:
Before J-6III, Chinese companies made many upgrades for the weapon system, avionics, and engines for their Soviet-designed planes. But never attempted to change the aerodynamics of the plane. J-6III was the first plane which had it's aerodynamically altered by Chinese engineers. They ignored the original nose design from the MiG-19PM and went along with a new design for the indigenous radar. The wingspan was shortened (notice the location of the missile on the wing, it is on the wingtip), wing area increased by about 1.18 square meters, the thickness of the wing reduced. An upgraded engine was introduced as well. As a result, during the initial combat test, it demonstrated an increases in term of the speed, maneuverability, climb rate, and acceleration characteristics.



Background story:
Despite the improvements over the old MiG-19 variants, it was still nowhere near the initial criteria which stated that the plane needs to have a maximum speed of 1.6 mach, a ceiling of 20,000 meters. But never the less, it managed to impress the military during the test. Fueled by the national pride, the military decided to put this design into large scale production, which against the recommendation of the designing team since the endurance test and error detection test haven't been conducted yet. About 300 planes were made in the initial production. However, a year after those planes enter the service, problems started to appear. The new engine was more powerful, but also generate more heat, which leads to overheating in certain weather; some rivets near the air intake came off on a few planes during flight and caused some accident. Because of that, all J-6IIIs was grounded and sent back to the designing factory to solve the issue. Only after 3 years of revision, all problems were solved and the design was perfected. All planes were then sent back to the service where they operated without any incident. However, veteran pilots still complained about the handling of the plane for being "oversensitive" and do NOT recommend this plane for newbie pilots. (But luckily we don't care since we have "Axi tunning in control option). Nevertheless, the J-6III had proven itself as a capable fighter. China, as an enthusiast user of J-6, out of over 600 J-6 they had built, over 400 of them were J-6III variant, a clear indicator of its superiority over other variants.
The plane is armed with 3x30mm cannon and 4 hardpoints for PL-2B missiles which were the best missile China had at the time. It is roughly equivalent to the Soviet R-13M.



And for those who can understand Chinese, please watch this:



3: J-7G
Not just another fishbed.
The new wings retain the existing leading-edge sweep angle of 57° inboard but have reduced sweep angle of 42° on the outboard wing, which also has a leading-edge flap fitted. This design offered an excellent solution to the inherent low aspect ratio problem of a slender delta. The slighting larger wingspan and 8.17% more wing area also gave an increased internal fuel capacity (from 2,080kg to 4,165kg) and much enhanced manoeuvrability.The aircraft’s performance was further enhanced by the introduction of an improved Liming (LMC) Wopen-13F turbojet rated at 44.1kN dry and 66.7kN with afterburning, giving a thrust-to-weight ratio of about 0.9 in clean, take-off configuration compared with 0.8 of J-7B. The sea-level climbing rate has increased from 155m/s to 195m/s; the ferry range has increased from 1,500km to 2,200km; the G limit has increased from 7g to 8g. The maximum instantaneous turn rate is 25.2 degree/sec, and the maximum sustained turn rate at 1,000m altitude is 16 degree/sec. According to CAC’s advertisement, compared with the J-7B, the overall aerodynamic performance of J-7G has increased by 43%, and the combat effectiveness has increased by 84%.




I once heard that they tested with Pakistan's F-16A. The results shown that without BVR missiles, just use short range IR missiles and the internal cannon for dog fight, F-16A had no advantage over the J-7G.



J-7G is equipped with an I/J-band KLJ-6E Lieying (“Falcon”) pulse-Doppler fire-control radar allegedly based on the Israeli EL/M2001. A new one-piece front windscreen replaced the original three-piece design for better cockpit visibility. Other improvements include a new Type III IFF, an indigenous zero-height, zero-speed ejection seat, and improved electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite. The J-7G firs flew in June 2002 and entered the PLAAF service in 2004. The J-7G production is expected to last for few years before the J-10 and J-11B fighter can enter service in significant numbers. 16 examples of the J-7G fighter were delivered to the PLAAF 37th Air Division (serial number 5XX8X) based at Urumqi, Xinjiang. An additional 32 aircraft were delivered to the PLAAF 12th Division (serial number 2XX3X) in November 2006. An unarmed version designated J-7GB replaced the earlier J-7EB in the PLAAF August 1st Aerobatic Demonstration Team
It can carry advanced missiles like PL-8 and PL-9.



Also, for those who can learned Chinese, please watch this:



4: J-8E
Selling points
J-8I is the first true Chinese designed plane. It is a high-altitude, high-speed interceptor that was designed to go after any strategic recon planes like the U-2 and any strategic bombers that may threaten the nation's safety.
It has amaximum speed of Mach 2.2, a service ceiling of over 20,000m, a sea-level climb rate of 200m/s, and a combat radius of 750~1,000km.
The J-8E is the final variant of the the J-8I series and all domestic variants of J-8I have been upgraded to J-8E standard.



J-8E is equiped with a type 204 (JL-7) mono-pulse fire-control radar, SM-8A aeronautical optical gun-sight, onboard computer, new cockpit panel, and redesign ejection escape system and oxygen supply system. The original two Type 30-I 30mm cannons were replaced by two Type 23-III 23mm cannons. The four under-wing stores stations are capable of carrying the more advanced PL-5 series short-range AAM. These aircraft were also fitted with an improved electronic countermeasures (ECM) suite including KJ-8602B all-aspect radar warning receiver (RWR). G limit is about 5.

Since it can fly as high as U-2 and at a much higher speed and maneuverability, it can also equip a recon pod and use as a high altitude high speed recon plane.



This cockpit is not from a J-8E, but from the first variant of J-8I




Once again, for those who can understand Chinese:




5: J-8F
Selling point, the first Chinese designed plane with BVR capability.

J-8II series, despite share the same name with J-8I, it is almost totally new design. Unlike the previous J-8 models, which simply pursued high-altitude, high-speed performance, the J-8II emphasized very much on the performance at transonic speeds and in medium-low altitudes. The aircraft was also required to be able to engage enemy aircraft at beyond visual range (BVR) and have the secondary capability for ground attack.



Compared to the J-8I series, the J-8II has modestly improved its manoeuvrability. Test results showed that the J-8II’s intake efficiency was the same as the J-8 at high speeds and 6% higher at lower speeds. An electrically controlled differential horizontal tailplane resulted in the J-8II being 45% more efficient in roll control compared to the J-8 at subsonic speeds. G limit: 6.9

J-8F is the best and the final variant of the J-8II series, and is regarded as the first true ‘multirole’ fighter and also the most capable variant in the J-8II family. New features to the J-8F include a new fire-control radar (JL-10 or Type 1492) capable of firing the PL-12 (SD-10) active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM), a ‘glass’ cockpit, and more powerful WP-13BII turbojets (each rated at ~7,000kg with afterburning). In addition, the aircraft features enhanced air-to-surface/ship strike capability. Like the J-8D variant, the J-8F could also be fitted with a fixed in-flight refuelling probe.



The J-8F is generally similar to the early variants of the J-8II family in appearance. The most recognisable features are two wing fences on each wing (in contrast to one on previous variants) and the stiffened nose radome. The new fire-control radar has a radio command transmitter to provide mid-course correction for the PL-12 MRAAM during the 'beyond-visual-range' (BVR) attack. When using PL-12, the radar enables the pilot to lock on two targets and engage them simutanously.

If necessary, the radar could also guide Russian-made MRAAM such as R-27 (AA-10) and R-77 (AA-12). The radar also has enhanced air-to-ground and air-to-sea modes to fire a range of precision guided armaments including laser or satellite-guided bombs, and the Russian Kh-31 anti-ship missile.




Although the J-8F has yet approached the capabilities of advanced fighter aircraft such as Su-27 or Su-30, it provides a relatively inexpensive supplement to PLAAF’s existing fourth-generation fighter fleet. The aircraft first flew in 2000 and the first successful test fire of the PL-12 MRAAM took place in spring 2004. The fighter entered PLAAF service in 2003 and the production continues.

6: Q-5III
Q-5 is an attacker plane design by China during the cold war.
Q-5III is the most iconic and internationally most widespread version. And it is the first variant equiped with an all aspect RWR.


Crew: One
Wingspan: 9.68m
Length: 16.727m
Height: 4.19m
Empty weight: 6,400kg
Normal take-off weight: 9,530kg
Max take-off weight: 11,317kg
Max weapon payload: 2,000kg
Max speed: Mach 1.12 (sea level) or Mach 1.5 (10,975m)
Range: Ferry range less than 2,000km with two drop tanks, combat radius 400km on a lo-lo-lo attack mission with maximum warload, or 600km on a hi-lo-hi attack mission with maximum warload
Service ceiling: 16,500m


7: Q-5D
The best variant in service.
introduced during the 1996 Taiwan Strait Crisis, the separate doppler navigation system and GPS of the Q-5C was replaced by the DG-1 integrated doppler navigation/GPS system. Other systems included the ALR-1 Laser rangefinder/Marked Target seeker and QHK-10 Head Up Display. A new weapon aiming sight, the SH-1II, replaced the older SH-1I, and No. 5311 Factory managed to successfully integrate this sight with the new laser range finder and Type 205 navigation radar.



Some unconfirmed images indicates that this variant of Q-5 is upgraded to equip a new targeting pod to guide laser guided bombs.






8: H-5
If this is made, it will be the first dedicated bomber of the DCS series.
It can be used to simulate a variety of scenario from 60s to 90s.
Since it is long out of service, there wouldn't be any issues from the government.




OK, now you are properly informed, please vote your preferences.

I have also made this poll to vote, please feel free to take a look too
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=255017








,

Last edited by J-20; 12-08-2019 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:21 PM   #2
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The JH-7 would also be cool to see in game.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:25 PM   #3
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"I once heard that they tested with Pakistan's F-16A. The results shown that without BVR missiles, just use short range IR missiles and the internal cannon for dog fight, F-16A had no advantage over the J-7G."

That is always so odd thing to hear. Like the Mig-23 vs F-16A etc.
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Old 09-18-2019, 05:40 PM   #4
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6: Q-5III - Looks like a Thud.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:13 PM   #5
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I'd like to see some of the more advanced planes, but at the same time I realize that will be harder if not impossible. Plus I'm pretty sure none of the more advanced ones were actually exported, which means less scenario coverage i.e. we are stuck with some sort of hypothetical China vs whoever conflicts. Of the older planes the J5 looks the most interesting as we already have a mig15 and 19 and 21. That or Deka could do an older century series US fighter or European fighter from the 60's/70's.
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Old 09-18-2019, 06:19 PM   #6
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J-7 would be my top pick, Iran has the J-7 (F-7), we have a map with Iran.

It only makes sense to me to be a top priority.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:00 PM   #7
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Mig-29K

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Old 09-18-2019, 07:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoglessPanic View Post
6: Q-5III - Looks like a Thud.

It's actually a modified Mig-19. The back is pretty much identical to the Farmer.


Other than that, you missed (assuming they are allowed of course):



The JH-7, pretty much the Chinese take on a Tornado/Viggen/F111/Su24/Jaguar type aircraft



If they want to try their hand at something reaaaally different the H-5 could be cool




The J-10 is also a nice possibility for people that like the super modern/flashiest modules
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:07 PM   #9
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J-10 and JH-7 are in service in massive number. I doubt we will be able to get them anytime soon. H-5 on the other hand is very interesting. If they do decide to make H-5, it will be the first dedicated bomber in DCS. Also, it will be a nice if it is multicrew enabled.

Also, Q-5's back is not identical with MiG-19. It is developed from MiG-19 that's true. But
had a longer fuselage, area ruled to reduce transonic drag and accommodate a 4 m (13-ft) long internal weapons bay. The air intakes were moved to the fuselage sides to make space in the nose for a planned target radar. New wings with greater area and reduced sweep were incorporated. The Q-5 shares the J-6's Liming Wopen WP-6A engines. The redesign cost some high-altitude speed, but the Q-5 is as fast as the MiG-19/J-6 at low level, thanks largely to the area-ruled fuselage.

Last edited by J-20; 09-28-2019 at 02:29 PM.
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Old 09-18-2019, 07:11 PM   #10
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I added the JH-7 because they mentioned being interested in it on Facebook (I think). Plus, the J-8 is also in service (and so is the JF-17 really), so I figured why not include them. I do agree the J-10 may be a bit out there, but who knows. Just having a JF-17 is fairly unexpected in my opinion.


I would love one of these older light/medium bombers like the H-5 or even the B-57B. I think if a module is done well enough and is completely different from anything else in DCS it's likely to do well, even if the plane isn't the most famous or flashiest - the Viggen being the best example of that.
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