How does the SD-10 missile compare to the AIM-120C?

Can you please share the link of PAF website that provided

At 10:00 it describes the weapons they carry on missions.

"On a typical air defense mission it's wing carry PL-5EII and SD-10 BVR.."

yes, from this autumn .. not before

Is in this thread if you read it ..

Yes I have read the thread, the only sources you shared are:

1) Wxn

2) Pakistan defense

None of these represent PAF, but you have claimed that it’s on official PAF website. So please share the source.

Now the 2 sources you shared, none of them verifies your claim that sd-10 were recently (2019) delivered to Pakistan.

Wxn shares the pilot interview in which he said that the worst part of jf17 is limited BVR loadout.

What does he mean by that? Well the whole interview of the pilot was basically based on F16 vs Jf17, the only logical explanation for limited BVR loadout refers to how Jf-17 can only carry (2) SD-10 BVR missiles (dual rack is yet not confirmed by PAF or any other sources) meanwhile F16 can carry up to (6) AIM-120 AMRAAM variants and AIM-7 sparrows in a BVR load out.

When exactly SD-10 did became active service no one knows because PAF never disclosed this information. But what we know from the information we have is gives us the timeline that they were active service in 2015 the least. 2015 is when the documentary by PAF came out which claims “It carries…” not “It will carry…” . In 2015 Jf17 got international attention during Paris air show and since then where ever jf17 goes, sd-10 is a part of the package shown by PAF.

Now according to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute Arms Trade database:

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

600 SD-10 were ordered by PAF in 2006,

the delivery started in 2010 and In 2018

425 out of 600 were delivered to Pakistan.

Anyone can check the database.

Just to be sure how accurate the database is, I checked it against the deals I was sure about, example:

1) Aselpods ordered by Pakistan

8 in 2016 for $25M

16 in 2017 for the same price $25M

https://quwa.org/2017/05/30/pakistan-reportedly-orders-aselpod-targeting-pods-jf-17/

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/aselsan-signs-a-new-export-contract-for-aselpod-3125

2) 2018 deal for MILGEM class frigate for Pakistan:

4 frigates out of which 2 will be build in turkey and 2 in Pakistan

https://quwa.org/2019/09/29/steel-cut-for-pakistans-first-milgem-corvette/

https://www.dawn.com/news/1508373

P.S Dawn is one of the largest news cooperation in Pakistan

All these information checks out in the database.

These are my sources and why I believe that Pakistan had sd10 active service at least in 2015.

Now you said you have official PAF website source for backing your claims, so please share it and Everyone's claim and sources will be irrelevant against PAF official statement.

Otherwise there is no point in continuing this topic. It’s just your words against numerous sources saying otherwise

Yes I have read the thread, the only sources you shared are:

These are my sources and why I believe that Pakistan had sd10 active service at least in 2015

yes, you believe, that universal answer of this universe ... :)

But not its fact ..

Believe and facts are two different things ..

Try to send post with info from official pages from PAF about use SD-10 since 2015 :)

For example pages from http://www.defenceturkey.com don't respond about use PAF since 2015 ..

yes, you believe, that universal answer of this universe ... :) But its fact ..

Believe and facts are two different things ..

Well that's exactly why we want you to provide sources, because your words are not facts, even if they come from facts. To have any credibility one must provide sources. Because otherwise, there is no way for any of us to know how credible your information is.

So if you can, please provide.

Edit- Grammar

Well that's exactly why we want you to provide sources, because your words are not facts, even if they come from facts.r

1) link to PAF twitter message since 2019 about use SD-10

2) Conversation with PAF pilot

You completely ignore previous posts. Discussion is a waste of time ..

Its simple - simulation of this missile PL-12 (SD-10) will be science fiction

maybe like the rest of the components from this aircraft ..

 

Few facts:

 

1) SD-10 (PL-12) never carried on JF-17

2) SD-10 (PL-12) never fired from JF-17

3) Never used in battle

4) Nobody from Pakistan air force doesn't know the performance this missile has.

5) In china is this reverse-engineered Russian made R-77 still in testing ..

6) Pakistani pilots of JF-17 use these tactics - for medium-range shooting - CALL F-16 with amraam! This is an IRL situation from Indo-Pakistani Kashmir territory.

Also, before time one F-16 shot-down Indian plane with amraam ..

7) Yes, Pakistani airforce has these missiles ordered. But they haven't arrived yet ..

Do tell me where the links are here.

Edit- And I have no problem ending the conversation here, as I can agree, we aren't getting anywhere.

Do tell me where the links are here.

 

Edit- And I have no problem ending the conversation here, as I can agree, we aren't getting anywhere.

:lol:

ok - let's end this waste of time ..

1) link to PAF twitter message since 2019 about use SD-10

Are you talking about the attached tweet? Because that literally gives zero information that supports your claim.

2) Conversation with PAF pilot

This is not credible. How do we know you even talked with said PAF pilot. This is why we are asking you for links....people can say they did anything, but links to official sources cannot be disputed.

Even if your claim that the JF-17 didn't carry the missile until very recently is correct (unlikely, as others have provided credible sources proving you wrong), that should not have any bearing on learning the characteristics of the missile, since it has been in service for a decent amount of time in other areas.

Are you talking about the attached tweet? Because that literally gives

This is not credible. How do we know you even talked with said PAF pilot.

1) PAF twitter is official info

2) yes conversation with PAF pilot it's not credible, and all links in this thread except official PAF pages also aren't credible :)

anyway, I buy it this DCS module, despite that whole module will be probably science fiction :)

1) PAF twitter is official info

The tweet is literally just a picture and a quote, nothing more. It does, in no way, prove your statement correct. It doesn't even provide any new information at all.

"JF-17 Thunder guarding Pakistan skies through within & beyond visual range capability" Ok....we already knew that. It does not state that the BVR capability is new in any way, and just seems like a standard recruitment Ad for the Pakistan Air Force.

2) yes conversation with PAF pilot it's not credible, and all links in this thread except official PAF pages also aren't credible :)

I'd say the sources below look pretty credible :). Also, I have had conversations with two PAF pilots that said they used the SD-10 on the JF-17 waaay before you are saying they did ;)

Yes I have read the thread, the only sources you shared are:

...

Now according to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute Arms Trade database:

 

http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/trade_register.php

 

600 SD-10 were ordered by PAF in 2006,

the delivery started in 2010 and In 2018

425 out of 600 were delivered to Pakistan.

 

Anyone can check the database.

 

Just to be sure how accurate the database is, I checked it against the deals I was sure about, example:

 

1) Aselpods ordered by Pakistan

 

8 in 2016 for $25M

16 in 2017 for the same price $25M

 

https://quwa.org/2017/05/30/pakistan-reportedly-orders-aselpod-targeting-pods-jf-17/

 

https://www.defenceturkey.com/en/content/aselsan-signs-a-new-export-contract-for-aselpod-3125

 

2) 2018 deal for MILGEM class frigate for Pakistan:

 

4 frigates out of which 2 will be build in turkey and 2 in Pakistan

 

https://quwa.org/2019/09/29/steel-cut-for-pakistans-first-milgem-corvette/

 

https://www.dawn.com/news/1508373

 

P.S Dawn is one of the largest news cooperation in Pakistan

 

 

All these information checks out in the database.

 

 

These are my sources and why I believe that Pakistan had sd10 active service at least in 2015.

 

Now you said you have official PAF website source for backing your claims, so please share it and Everyone's claim and sources will be irrelevant against PAF official statement.

 

Otherwise there is no point in continuing this topic. It’s just your words against numerous sources saying otherwise

Also, you didn't address this from my other post: "Even if your claim that the JF-17 didn't carry the missile until very recently is correct (unlikely, as others have provided credible sources proving you wrong), that should not have any bearing on learning the characteristics of the missile, since it has been in service for a decent amount of time in other areas."

So we need real PAF pilot here, nothing worse :)

So we need real PAF pilot here, nothing worse :)

even then, i prob wouldn't believe it without proof, since it's the internet...people can just make it up that they are one. The missile has also been used in other areas than the JF-17 for a long time. It isn't a brand new missile and characteristics can be learned.

even then, i prob wouldn't believe it without proof, since it's the internet...people can just make it up that they are one. The missile has also been used in other areas than the JF-17 for a long time. It isn't a brand new missile and characteristics can be learned.

of course

02/03/2018

1) link to PAF twitter message since 2019 about use SD-10

2) Conversation with PAF pilot

The Fact that he keeps referring to Pakistan Defense as PAF official twitter (When they themselves don't) pretty much says everything.

https://www.facebook.com/pakistanidefence/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/content-disclaimer-2018.585969/

Great. Now try found on this official pages something info about use SD-10 since 2015 or later :)

Great. Now try found on this official pages something info about use SD-10 since 2015 or later :)

These pages are NOT official...

I hoped that Deka would design SD10/PL12 drag and guidance like heatblur did. That'll force ED to overhaul missiles quickly. Now the Aim54 behaves like BMS missiles while other missiles are like we useb to them here, if we got a PL12 with BMS like characteristics things then ED will have to revise some calculations ????.

Heatblur didn’t do anything for guidance yet, that’s coming with new ARH API, which should benefit all DCS developers. The academic video showed there is size selection, wonder about loft(automatic?) or if anything else canl eventually be changed

I hoped that Deka would design SD10/PL12 drag and guidance like heatblur did.

I agree, I really hope they have somebody like IASTAGG write up a nice whitepaper on the missile like HB did.

It's better than the AIM-120C

Obviously something is wrong with the tacview track, DCS's WIP model or how the modder has equipped the F-15C with a SD-10A.

The tacview data readout at 15 seconds is

• SD-10A : 2.16 Mach @ 27,400 ft

• AIM-120C : 3.13 Mach @ 27,900 ft

but the track shows the slower SD-10A overtaking the faster AIM-120 ?

Obviously something is wrong with the tacview track, DCS's WIP model or how the modder has equipped the F-15C with a SD-10A.

 

The tacview data readout at 15 seconds is

 

• SD-10A : 2.16 Mach @ 27,400 ft

• AIM-120C : 3.13 Mach @ 27,900 ft

 

but the track shows the slower SD-10A overtaking the faster AIM-120 ?

Deka recently added the JF-17 weapons in the last OB patch for the 17's release next Wednesday.

I just tested them myslelf, and you can test the SD-10 too. the missile CLSID is:

{ CLSID = 'DIS_SD-10' },

put it on an F-15 with AIM-120s, and you'll see they outperform them.

It's also important to note, AIM-120 FM and missile logic is crap, and they've been crap for a long time in the sim. IRL, they should outperform SD-10, and should not behave like they do in the sim.

If i remember well Nineline said they are overhauling AIM-120 in new year.

Great twitch video from XCOM on the SD-10, He's getting 40nm kills against a manoeuvring AI F-15. Looks like it's significantly outperforming the AMRAAM