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Goodbye VR... for now at least.


GunSlingerAUS

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My first few hours flying DCS in VR with my HP Reverb and ninja PC (see specs below) were an utter revelation. Truly one of the most amazing gaming moments in my 35+ years of gaming.

Sadly, this love affair proved to be a brief one. Despite my initial rapture, I soon realised that the VR experience simply wasn’t good enough in its present state. I could either live with extremely low resolution (well below the Reverb’s native resolution) and nearly all graphics details on low, or I could have relatively crisp visuals that chugged by with unsightly asynchronous projection artefacts including the entire terrain stuttering if I looked sideways, or close aircraft displaying a second ghost/shadow overlapping their fuselage. Add in a bunch of bugs such as flickering terrain shadows, night lighting going crazy, and more, and the experience is not ideal. I wouldn’t be expected to deal with these glaring issues in any other game, and I’m not one of the many who find the immersion of VR a bigger plus than these negatives. I wish I was! Heck, some people can't even notice the issues associated with asynchronous reprojection, lucky buggers!

 

I’ve spent several months trying to get DCS to run well on the AU$1200 HMD I bought just for this purpose. Yes, several months. I’m very experienced in PC gaming hardware (I was extremely lucky enough to make a 20+ year career out of it), so please, save your tips and tweaks for somebody else – I’ve tried every possible solution you can think of. I’m sure many of you find your DCS running at 45fps with asynchronous reprojection to be fine, but I can't handle the artefacts that result.

 

Until I have hardware fast enough to double the framerates I’m seeing in DCS (which will likely take at least four years), or ED really sinks their teeth into improving VR performance, I’m resting up my HMD, likely to sell it in the near future to try to recoup some of the purchase price. Given the huge portion of VR users in DCS (almost 2/3 of all people I polled in the Facebook DCS fan page, albeit only over the space of a day), I’m hopeful that ED will take a good look at the base game, and fix VR performance. Note that DCS isn’t the only simulation in having VR issues; of those I play, IL2 BoS also has some chugging framerates.

 

In the meantime, I’m having an absolute blast flying DCS in 2D! I can see all the intricate details that make this such a stunning game, and it’s running beautifully. Sure, it’s not quite as immersive, but getting used to my TrackIR again took no time. I can once again appreciate what a wonderful piece of software DCS is. And I’m finally spending more time in the cockpit, rather than in the DCS and SteamVR options screens. To those who are currently enjoying the DCS VR experience, more props to you, and I hope I can join you soon.


Edited by GunSlingerAUS

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Life is simple, you make choices and don't look back

 

Its impossible to go back to a Screen for me... Even for Controller bindings.

 

I love DCS with the HP Reverb,on my High End System

 

But if we could get Vulkan,it would be a lot greater, as it already is.

 

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VR currently is not for everyone, and am not sure it ever will be. However for many it certainly is incredible.

For me, I use it daily in those two combat flight sims mentioned, as well as some other games, and could never go back to monitor again. I tried it once but could not do it.

 

Nothing wrong with VR not being for you in it's current state.

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Life is simple, you make choices and don't look back

 

Its impossible to go back to a Screen for me... Even for Controller bindings.

 

I love DCS with the HP Reverb,on my High End System

 

But if we could get Vulkan,it would be a lot greater, as it already is.

 

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My old buddy Toykilla ;)

 

You've seen me say goodbye once before, during a fit of frustration, but this time I've actually unplugged my HMD and am enjoying DCS in stunning in 2D. It really is a beauty to behold.

 

Alas, I don't think that Vulkan will solve all problems. For starters, it's an absolutely monumental task to port DCS over to a new API like Vulkan. I don't think ED will be able to do it without basically scrapping the existing engine.

 

Secondly, just because it's using Vulkan doesn't mean the engine will utilise today's multi-cored CPUs. That also requires the software to be ported into a much more modular approach, which is very difficult when moving from a single-threaded approach.

 

I really hope I'm wrong, but my experience suggests otherwise. Fingers crossed though, eh?

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Its impossible to go back to a Screen for me...

 

The same. No flat screen, with VR immersion is a lot better!

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GunSlinger, This is almost exactly how I feel. I've had the reverb for about a week and thinking of returning it. I've owned and returned the Samsung Odyssey and O+ before the reverb. I can understand why some people love it but in my opinion you have to sacrifice too much in visual quality to obtain playable framerates to make it enjoyable.

 

I was hoping the reverb was going to be the HMD that changes all of that but sadly it appears I'll be back to waiting for that next gen VR experience. Hopefully its not 4 years but that could be an accurate estimate.

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

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DCS Modules: F-14 Tomcat / F/A-18C Hornet / AV-8B NA / F-5E Tiger II / A-10C Warthog / F-16C Viper / UH-1 Huey / LOFC3 / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / P-51D Mustang / WWII Assets Pack / Normandy 1944 / NTTR Map / Persian Gulf Map / Syria Map

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I had a very similar experience with the Valve Index, with PC specs exactly like yours.

 

We are not there yet, but very, very close. It's a matter of just 2-3 years imho.

 

It will be an incredible experience, in the meantime I'll stick and enjoy 2D with decent sharpness and performance.

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My old buddy Toykilla ;)

 

You've seen me say goodbye once before, during a fit of frustration, but this time I've actually unplugged my HMD and am enjoying DCS in stunning in 2D. It really is a beauty to behold.

 

Alas, I don't think that Vulkan will solve all problems. For starters, it's an absolutely monumental task to port DCS over to a new API like Vulkan. I don't think ED will be able to do it without basically scrapping the existing engine.

 

Secondly, just because it's using Vulkan doesn't mean the engine will utilise today's multi-cored CPUs. That also requires the software to be ported into a much more modular approach, which is very difficult when moving from a single-threaded approach.

 

I really hope I'm wrong, but my experience suggests otherwise. Fingers crossed though, eh?

Its totally ok for me. Back to the roots, I would say.

 

We all different

 

Hope Oculus release a Plug&Play solution with Reverb Quality and Fitment in the Future, to make the Setup easier and for everyone achievable.

 

Have fun

 

 

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My first few hours flying DCS in VR with my HP Reverb and ninja PC (see specs below) were an utter revelation. Truly one of the most amazing gaming moments in my 35+ years of gaming.

Sadly, this love affair proved to be a brief one. Despite my initial rapture, I soon realised that the VR experience simply wasn’t good enough in its present state. I could either live with extremely low resolution (well below the Reverb’s native resolution) and nearly all graphics details on low, or I could have relatively crisp visuals that chugged by with unsightly asynchronous projection artefacts including the entire terrain stuttering if I looked sideways, or close aircraft displaying a second ghost/shadow overlapping their fuselage. Add in a bunch of bugs such as flickering terrain shadows, night lighting going crazy, and more, and the experience is not ideal. I wouldn’t be expected to deal with these glaring issues in any other game, and I’m not one of the many who find the immersion of VR a bigger plus than these negatives. I wish I was! Heck, some people can't even notice the issues associated with asynchronous reprojection, lucky buggers!

 

I’ve spent several months trying to get DCS to run well on the AU$1200 HMD I bought just for this purpose. Yes, several months. I’m very experienced in PC gaming hardware (I was extremely lucky enough to make a 20+ year career out of it), so please, save your tips and tweaks for somebody else – I’ve tried every possible solution you can think of. I’m sure many of you find your DCS running at 45fps with asynchronous reprojection to be fine, but I can't handle the artefacts that result.

 

Until I have hardware fast enough to double the framerates I’m seeing in DCS (which will likely take at least four years), or ED really sinks their teeth into improving VR performance, I’m resting up my HMD, likely to sell it in the near future to try to recoup some of the purchase price. Given the huge portion of VR users in DCS (almost 2/3 of all people I polled in the Facebook DCS fan page, albeit only over the space of a day), I’m hopeful that ED will take a good look at the base game, and fix VR performance. Note that DCS isn’t the only simulation in having VR issues; of those I play, IL2 BoS also has some chugging framerates.

 

In the meantime, I’m having an absolute blast flying DCS in 2D! I can see all the intricate details that make this such a stunning game, and it’s running beautifully. Sure, it’s not quite as immersive, but getting used to my TrackIR again took no time. I can once again appreciate what a wonderful piece of software DCS is. And I’m finally spending more time in the cockpit, rather than in the DCS and SteamVR options screens. To those who are currently enjoying the DCS VR experience, more props to you, and I hope I can join you soon.

I understand your frustation and I will throw the only last solution you may have not tried yet... how if you give Rift S a try with Amazon so you have 30 day trial?

 

What you could solve with it is:

-Plug & play and working wondefully for a lot of us without all the problems you have described (caused by WMR or god knows what)

-Acceptable frames at this expense of slightly worse visual quality ( i say slightly cause the difference is not as great as the numbers may indicate at first sight).

-Enjoy the beauties of VR.

 

 

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@GunSlingerAUS

 

Too bad you're from Australia (I assume :P), otherwise I might have gladly taken that Reverb off your hands :pilotfly:

 

 

On a more serious note.. Sorry to hear VR is not for you. Looking at your system specs, I must say though, that I'm a bit surprised you can't get it to run smoothly. I'm pretty sure I've seen people on this forum with lesser systems that are very enthusiastic about the Reverb.

 

 

As for myself, I'll never go to 2D again. Even with the poor-ish resolution and graphics of my "old" cv1

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Its totally ok for me. Back to the roots, I would say.

 

We all different

 

Hope Oculus release a Plug&Play solution with Reverb Quality and Fitment in the Future, to make the Setup easier and for everyone achievable.

 

Have fun

 

 

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I think the current hardware and software platform isn't too bad compared to Rift DK1 - you can be sure that the problem wasn't pebkac! If anything, I'd say a few people's Mark 1's were failing them :pilotfly:

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@GunSlingerAUS

 

Too bad you're from Australia (I assume :P), otherwise I might have gladly taken that Reverb off your hands :pilotfly:

 

 

On a more serious note.. Sorry to hear VR is not for you. Looking at your system specs, I must say though, that I'm a bit surprised you can't get it to run smoothly. I'm pretty sure I've seen people on this forum with lesser systems that are very enthusiastic about the Reverb.

 

 

As for myself, I'll never go to 2D again. Even with the poor-ish resolution and graphics of my "old" cv1

 

Like I said in my OP, many users are quite happy flying with the current limitations of VR, and more power to them. I wish I could do the same, but I simply can't stand the glaring issues.

 

I'm sure the problem doesn't lay with my hardware; in over two decades of testing hundreds of GPUs, CPUs, Displays, HMDs and more, I think I only screwed up benchmarks a couple of times. There is no margin for error when you have millions of eyeballs perusing your work, something I'm sure ED is more than familiar with ;)

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I understand your frustation and I will throw the only last solution you may have not tried yet... how if you give Rift S a try with Amazon so you have 30 day trial?

 

What you could solve with it is:

-Plug & play and working wondefully for a lot of us without all the problems you have described (caused by WMR or god knows what)

-Acceptable frames at this expense of slightly worse visual quality ( i say slightly cause the difference is not as great as the numbers may indicate at first sight).

-Enjoy the beauties of VR.

 

 

Enviado desde mi SM-G950F mediante Tapatalk

 

Thanks, but I've already tried DCS with the Vive and Cosmos, both of which had the exact same issue. And from what I've researched, Rift S users have this too - if you're running async warp/reprojection/smoothing/whatevernameused, ghosting and stuttering is an unfortunate by-product of the technique used to render fake frames. Some people just don't notice this, but I'm sure once they see a VR game without these issues, they'll never go back to it. Until they do though, they're having a ball with DCS! Lucky bastards ;)

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Im running the vive cosmos now, I used to run the dell visor.

 

Both have been very smooth for me and no stutter, as you mention some people have a different experience.

 

For me, when I fly for fun or casually it is done in VR, I even sold my trackIR I could not go back to it after experiencing VR.

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I'm a Simracer with every VR Simulation on my Simulator you can get. We drive Assetto Corsa Maxed out or iRacing optimized @ 90 FPS and they all dosen't look different to DCS on my System and the current settings. I know what you mean and see the problems also,but only with the wrong Settings.

 

The Rift S runs mutch easier and without Steam VR and all these possible Settings it came with.

 

The Display,the Sound and the Comfort, is not nearly as good as the Reverb, but it is only one Oculus Home installation,less performance hungry and nothing more to Setup, than the DCS ingame Settings. Quick and easy. I own also one for Months, before i tested the Reverb.

 

Im running the vive cosmos now, I used to run the dell visor.

 

Both have been very smooth for me and no stutter, as you mention some people have a different experience.

 

For me, when I fly for fun or casually it is done in VR, I even sold my trackIR I could not go back to it after experiencing VR.

 

Yes,DCS in VR is already a Dream come true , for us LockOn guys with a high End Iiyama Pro510 24" in the Cockpit,years ago

 

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Edited by TOYKILLA

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It's not a matter of the right settings or the best HMD. There are some serious issues with VR that simply can't be overcome with the current generation of hardware. I'm on my third HMD and have tried every setting imaginable each time and still get the same results. Sure I can get a smooth experience just flying around with hardly anything on the map. As soon as you start adding in clouds, AI units, etc. the stutter fest begins.

 

When I can fly normal combat missions with lots of units, weather and the same level of sharpness I can see on my 1440p monitor I'm back in. It's too much money and time to invest in a DCS experience that only allows for casual flying.

PC Hardware: Asus Maximus XIII Hero / i9-10900K / 64 GB DDR4 3600 MHz / NVIDIA RTX 3090 FE / Samsung 960 NVMe / LG OLED48CX / Reverb G2

Flight Controls: Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog / VKB T-RUDDER MKIV / Cougar MFD Set

DCS Modules: F-14 Tomcat / F/A-18C Hornet / AV-8B NA / F-5E Tiger II / A-10C Warthog / F-16C Viper / UH-1 Huey / LOFC3 / Spitfire LF Mk. IX / P-51D Mustang / WWII Assets Pack / Normandy 1944 / NTTR Map / Persian Gulf Map / Syria Map

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It's nothing but a tradeoff today. Immersion vs. GFX quality.

 

For ME - I don't even have to think about it. VR all the way, can't go back, won't go back.

Together with my motion rig immersion is on a level I dreamed of 40y ago (any Atari 2600 veterans here? :thumbup:)

 

I even had to quit my beloved P3D, VR sucks there big time.

 

I can get decent quality out of my system. Sure, much to improve, but it'll come.

Till then......let's go flying :pilotfly:

Ryzen 3700X, 2080ti, 32GB, HP Reverb, Rift S, Thrustmaster Warthog, Crosswind, SFX-100 motion rig :thumbup:

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It's not a matter of the right settings or the best HMD. There are some serious issues with VR that simply can't be overcome with the current generation of hardware. I'm on my third HMD and have tried every setting imaginable each time and still get the same results. Sure I can get a smooth experience just flying around with hardly anything on the map. As soon as you start adding in clouds, AI units, etc. the stutter fest begins.

 

 

 

When I can fly normal combat missions with lots of units, weather and the same level of sharpness I can see on my 1440p monitor I'm back in. It's too much money and time to invest in a DCS experience that only allows for casual flying.

No thats wrong,I fly Daily in Combat with the F/A-18C on full Multiplayer Servers and have no issues with Textures and Terrain on High Setting also.

 

But the F-14B is really terrible optimized for VR User.

 

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My first few hours flying DCS in VR with my HP Reverb and ninja PC (see specs below) were an utter revelation. Truly one of the most amazing gaming moments in my 35+ years of gaming.

Sadly, this love affair proved to be a brief one. Despite my initial rapture, I soon realised that the VR experience simply wasn’t good enough in its present state. I could either live with extremely low resolution (well below the Reverb’s native resolution) and nearly all graphics details on low, or I could have relatively crisp visuals that chugged by with unsightly asynchronous projection artefacts including the entire terrain stuttering if I looked sideways, or close aircraft displaying a second ghost/shadow overlapping their fuselage. Add in a bunch of bugs such as flickering terrain shadows, night lighting going crazy, and more, and the experience is not ideal. I wouldn’t be expected to deal with these glaring issues in any other game, and I’m not one of the many who find the immersion of VR a bigger plus than these negatives. I wish I was! Heck, some people can't even notice the issues associated with asynchronous reprojection, lucky buggers!

 

I’ve spent several months trying to get DCS to run well on the AU$1200 HMD I bought just for this purpose. Yes, several months. I’m very experienced in PC gaming hardware (I was extremely lucky enough to make a 20+ year career out of it), so please, save your tips and tweaks for somebody else – I’ve tried every possible solution you can think of. I’m sure many of you find your DCS running at 45fps with asynchronous reprojection to be fine, but I can't handle the artefacts that result.

Sorry that VR doesn’t seem to be for you, but I have to add that my experience is nothing like what you describe.

I love my stutter free, smooth, detailed experience of DCS in VR!

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@GunSlingerAUS

 

Too bad you're from Australia (I assume :P), otherwise I might have gladly taken that Reverb off your hands :pilotfly:

 

 

On a more serious note.. Sorry to hear VR is not for you. Looking at your system specs, I must say though, that I'm a bit surprised you can't get it to run smoothly. I'm pretty sure I've seen people on this forum with lesser systems that are very enthusiastic about the Reverb.

 

 

As for myself, I'll never go to 2D again. Even with the poor-ish resolution and graphics of my "old" cv1

 

I’m thinking the same myself. Maybe with reverb’s higher resolution it has a dramatic performance hit over my samsung odyessy+? I’m running same gpu and slower cpu and I easily get 45-60fps at high resolution.

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The one thing I have problems with in this thread is the idea of isolating the problem itself. Isn’t it more that DCS core graphics are just too slow with all the features that some of you want. Simple mathematics would show you that you need over 200 frames per second on a single 2Kx2K monitor in order to get 90 frames per second with the stereo headset and VR. Other core engines like Aerofly FS2 provide anywhere from 200 to 300 frames per second but don’t have other aircraft or ground weapons. If the Core graphics of DCS could be optimized, maybe you might return to VR.

PC HW 9700K@5.0Ghz

Win 10 (Build 2004 ) with WMR

VR - Reverb

RTX2070 with Nvidia 451.48

DCS 2.5.6 (latest)

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Thank you for sharing this! I went along with a respected fellow pilot that we should wait for VR version 2.0 with the REVERB and I'm really hopeful that some company focuses on mastering "Seated Simulation" customers like driving and flight sims. The sky is literally the limit!

 

 

Cheers Gunslinger AUS

"There are only two types of aircraft, Fighters and Targets." Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson

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VR has killed any possibility of flying in 2D for me. I honestly wish I didn’t try it as early as I did. However, it’s totally flyable for me. I typically have 45 FPS even on heavier maps with the common frame dips around airbases. Is there ghosting? Yes but it is not enough of a distraction to take away from the immersion I get from VR. Then again I flew the other Viper sim for 20 years and was already accustomed to shit graphics outside the pit. Being able to do overhead breaks, air refuel and fly formation with the precision of being in a real aircraft with realistic visual cues is truly outstanding. What I don’t get, what I struggle to wrap my head around is how 10 people can have practically identical top end computers and get totally different results using the exact same settings and exact same HMD. It makes no sense. It reminds me of having to do “The Dance” before connecting online with others to fly the other Viper sim. I’m talking circa 2001-2002 lol. The difference being, after doing “the dance”, you were pretty sure to get at least an hour of online flying. Granted, ensuring everyone’s config settings were the same for network syncing is different from hardware/driver settings but the same principles apply.

Anyway, in the end this is what we do for enjoyment. If you’re not enjoying it, do what you gotta do. For me though, if I quit VR, I quit DCS and all other flying sims as well.

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