GBU-12 Loft attack

I'm not sure if there is already a thread on this somewhere. If so, I apologize. I did a cursory search and didn't find anything.

I was playing around with traditional GBU-12 Loft attacks in the Hornet last night and found a technique that seems to work well in the absence of Loft cues or a Loft delivery mode - which I believe is still WIP. I'm sure this would work in the F-16 or any other jet that does GBU-12 AUTO employment.

Steps that I found worked well:

1. Have your SMS set up with AUTO, Fuzes selected, and laser code set

2. Designate a target with the pod and have the crosshairs ATRAK or PTRK on it if able.

3. Set up about a 5-6nm run in from the target to give yourself time to get settled on the steering line.

4. Run in at 300-500 AGL, about 450-500 KIAS

5. At about 15-20 Sec on the time to release cue, pull up with about 3-4G pull (fairly gentle), while maintaining the flight path marker on the steering line. Keeping a steady 3-4 G is there key here. Don't pull up to a pitch angle and then stop pulling. There should be G on the jet until release. The bomb will come off at about 20-40 deg nose high depending on your pull G.

6. At the initiation of the pull, also push and hold down the weapon release button (pickle button). You will see the time to release rapidly count down and the release cue start moving down from the top of the steering line. Hold the pickle button down until the bomb is off (the steering line goes away is the cue that the bomb has been released).

7. As soon as you get a release cue, execute a ~135 degree roll (sliceback) to get your nose below the horizon and pull to again 3-4 Gs. AS soon as your nose is about 60 deg off Attack heading, roll wings level while still diving at about 30 deg towards the deck. Watch your speed and altitude and stand the throttle(s) up if you're getting too fast.

8. As soon as you complete the 135 deg sliceback maneuver and roll wings level in the dive, this is your chance to update the cursor position on the target if it is not exactly on the desired impact spot. Once you get it where you want, stop trying to perfectly refine it and fly the jet so as not to hit the ground. Your main job here is to make sure you don't mask the TGP. So if you see masking about to happen, usually just a slight wing up roll away from the target is needed to unmask.

I did this a bunch of times on DCS and it works like a champ and is very close to IRL if you had a Loft mode in the SMS.

I'll see if I can post some tracks of this attack to show the steps above. This is a VERY demanding attack profile and is really fun if done correctly. The practical application is for use against SAM/AAA threats if you need to ingress and egress low and can only expose yourself for a brief amount of time to deliver an LGB. It's demanding because a lot of Single Seat pilots IRL have gone "SPLAT" on the ground when they became target fixated and were flying the TGP instead of the jet.

To add: a fun exercise is to set up a series of armored vehicles on a flat spot like a Dry lake bed on the NTTR map and then set up a 5-6 mile racetrack course and the jet loaded with as many GBU-12s as you can carry. At weapon splash, turn to the downwind of the race track and make sure all your switches are set while going outbound. At about 4.5-5 miles from the designated target spin back 180 deg to the final attack heading and do it again.

Where do you lase in this profile and how do you avoid masking?

Where do you lase in this profile and how do you avoid masking?

Ideally, you would delay turning on the laser until about 8-10 sec TTI to improve bomb energy. However, the bomb is not going to acquire the laser spot until it hits it's apogee and is pointed downhill at the target, so my initial tests with continuous lase seemed to work. IRL, I would have my doubts, but I don't think DCS models the PWII all that well.

Masking is definitely the bitch. To me the key is to roll to pull the nose back down to below the horizon and roll out wings level about 45-60 off the attack heading. Any more and you will force the pod to look through itself behind the jet. Then once rolled out wings level and diving for the deck, you manage the masking by slight roll inputs lifting the wing on the side of the jet where the target is. Its subtle little roll inputs. 5-10 to start, more as you get lower.

It also depends on where the Pod is and what other stores you have. If you have the pod on the left cheek station for instance, then you need to make the maneuver a right turn away from the target to keep the pod on the side of the jet where the TGT is. Also, masking will be worse if you have wing tanks, or other bombs on the pylons on that side - so you may need more bank to keep from masking. It's very dynamic.

Isn't this a 'toss' delivery what you're describing.

Also, I'd rather lase from mid or higher altitudes when no SAMs in the picture.

Against any descent air defenses I would have to use some sort of coordinated SEAD before lasing.

For the scenarios you were using, especially in the hills the dumb bombs work quite good. Load the big ones. :D I've flown a lot of successful missions in DCS using loft deliveries even against S300's... that were placed without putting too much effort on analyzing the terrain and such;)

Toss or loft, turn and run like hell... so eighties!:D

Isn't this a 'toss' delivery what you're describing.

What exactly is the difference? I've always seen it called "toss/loft" or similar anyway, so my guess is it's the same...

Here's a couple of tracks of the maneuver as I described if anyone is interested. I started out further back than I described only because I had to have time to set up the SMS, the FLIR, the steering and designation, laser on, etc.

The one key I've found is you have to be very precise flying the steering line once you begin the pull up, because if your off by much - it will inhibit weapon release.

gbu-12 loft3.trk

gbu-12 loft4.trk

Isn't this a 'toss' delivery what you're describing.

 

What exactly is the difference? I've always seen it called "toss/loft" or similar anyway, so my guess is it's the same...

No, its a Loft. A LOFT is typically begun from straight and level at low altitude and then initiated by climbing. A "Toss" is usually a diving maneuver from Med altitude where you point at the target and then Pull up in AUTO to get the bomb to have more standoff than a CCIP attack for instance. It's often also called a "Dive Toss". If you dive at say 30 deg and begin a 3-4g pull, the bomb will often come off somewhere between -10 to +20 depending on range and such. The pull is roughly the same between the two, but the difference is where they start.

Here's a multi-attack (3). On Run-in #2, I was not on the ASL and it inhibited wpn release. :doh:

gbu-12 loft-reatk.trk

You can also use them as cruise missiles :music_whistling:

Might've been the video of the Paveway II acting like glide bombs. AFAIK Paveway II isn't supposed to be able to do that, what with the bang-bang guidance and all. Paveway IIIs however might be able to glide to some degree.

I've also noticed Paveway IIs being a lot 'smoother' but hey, I got nothing.

Might've been the video of the Paveway II acting like glide bombs. AFAIK Paveway II isn't supposed to be able to do that, what with the bang-bang guidance and all. Paveway IIIs however might be able to glide to some degree.

Not to THAT degree! :smoke:

You can also use them as cruise missiles :music_whistling:

 

:D Looks like the bombs were still doing around 300 kts 'gliding' happily to impact...

I shall promptly include this technique into my tactics:thumbup:

Not to THAT degree! :smoke:

Yeah :lol:

Might've been the video of the Paveway II acting like glide bombs. AFAIK Paveway II isn't supposed to be able to do that, what with the bang-bang guidance and all. Paveway IIIs however might be able to glide to some degree.

 

I've also noticed Paveway IIs being a lot 'smoother' but hey, I got nothing.

Yeah, PWIII do have some very limited "glide" capability with the bigger fins and proportional guidance.

Speaking of which, when is PWIII going to be implemented in DCS?

Speaking of which, when is PWIII going to be implemented in DCS?

The GBU-24 is on the roadmap for 2021 as per Wags.

The GBU-24 is on the roadmap for 2021 as per Wags.

Very cool!

Is this roadmap anywhere other than in the 1000 page thread? Like in a changelog or something similar on the DCS website?

Very cool!

 

Is this roadmap anywhere other than in the 1000 page thread? Like in a changelog or something similar on the DCS website?

It's here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300736&postcount=185

Reapers did this a while back. Tossed the GBU over a mountain and it snagged the laser spot.

I think they used F-16s for it.

It's here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4300736&postcount=185

Thanks.

Reapers did this a while back. Tossed the GBU over a mountain and it snagged the laser spot.

 

I think they used F-16s for it.

Buddy lase, I assume?

Buddy lase, I assume?

Yep. Really the only way to do it.

No, its a Loft. A LOFT is typically begun from straight and level at low altitude and then initiated by climbing. A "Toss" is usually a diving maneuver from Med altitude where you point at the target and then Pull up in AUTO to get the bomb to have more standoff than a CCIP attack for instance. It's often also called a "Dive Toss". If you dive at say 30 deg and begin a 3-4g pull, the bomb will often come off somewhere between -10 to +20 depending on range and such. The pull is roughly the same between the two, but the difference is where they start.

Thanks, so it depends on the dive angle initially. Interesting, I kinda do something in between usually. Dive just 5-10° to pick up speed, then pull up in time to get the thing(s) off. Probably not realistic though to throw them from M 1.3+

Yeah, PWIII do have some very limited "glide" capability with the bigger fins and proportional guidance.

 

Speaking of which, when is PWIII going to be implemented in DCS?

It is already, but called Paveway II... haven't seen the GBUs "bang bang" for ages now, instead they home in rather smoothly. Kinda Franken-PW 2.5 we have at the moment. Back in the day when the A-10C was fresh, there were real PWII in DCS... watching those GBU-12s was awesome.

It is already, but called Paveway II... haven't seen the GBUs "bang bang" for ages now, instead they home in rather smoothly. Kinda Franken-PW 2.5 we have at the moment. Back in the day when the A-10C was fresh, there were real PWII in DCS... watching those GBU-12s was awesome.

That's indeed an issue ED has to adress. PWII's don't behave like PWII's atm (no bang bang guidance) ... :(

Thanks, so it depends on the dive angle initially. Interesting, I kinda do something in between usually. Dive just 5-10° to pick up speed, then pull up in time to get the thing(s) off. Probably not realistic though to throw them from M 1.3+

 

 

 

It is already, but called Paveway II... haven't seen the GBUs "bang bang" for ages now, instead they home in rather smoothly. Kinda Franken-PW 2.5 we have at the moment. Back in the day when the A-10C was fresh, there were real PWII in DCS... watching those GBU-12s was awesome.

5-10 deg is still technically a Dive Toss, but you're not really going to gain much from it over a level release. One of the really great uses for a Dive Toss maneuver is in conjunction with the VVSL mode in the Hornet. If you're going after a TGT of opportunity with LGBs, you can roll it from a ways out, put the VV on the tgt, designate, slew to refine the designation if needed, and then hold down the pickle button and start pulling. Obviously if you're too far away, it won't work. But if you're a couple of miles outside of the Level CCRP release range to dive in, it works well.

Best airspeed is in the normal 400-550 KIAS. If you're above the Mach, you'll overspeed the GBU seeker heads. Although I doubt DCS models this.