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Guess what! Easy AAR!


Gregkar

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Dumbing down features of the simulation is a slippery slope. No sooner, this (DCS) will be the equivalent to"that other horrible arcade game we all know". It just takes time. There is no point in worrying about accurate weapons and FM (constantly bothering the Devs) if we want the simple things like AAR dumbed down. I say simple because AAR is mostly formation flying. No point in accurate anything if we are going to turn it into an arcade where everything is easy. We have all of these manuals (which some don't even bother to read) and a plethora of info from the forums. For years I watched people down the more popular civil sims and say "Come to DCS, it's the most realistic for combat blah, blah". And they were right! Now, that being said, there are cheats in game already, but lets not lose our minds! The fact that the OP openly stated that he "didn't have time" is very telling! Five solid years in DCS for me and a lot seem to want unrealistic things in order to make their lives easier (RIP Immersion). Very funny!

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Dumbing down features of the simulation is a slippery slope. No sooner, this (DCS) will be the equivalent to"that other horrible arcade game we all know". It just takes time.

I can agree with that. Although I don't think DCS could ever devolve to that other game, casual-feature creep is indeed a potential problem. Add easier A now and a year later, people will want easier B. At some point you've gone too far, but because the game is more casual now, it has attracted a certain crowd and that crowd is used to these mechanics. You can't go back. You can't remove easy A and easy B now that they're there and the crowd you've attracted will soon demand easy C. And so on. I'm not saying that this will happen, but it can happen.

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I think this thread is getting close to it's sell by date! For now ED should just concentrate on consolidating and bug fixing what we already have before even thinking of adding new features of whatever type.

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And another "make it easier" thread came up:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=279507

Just saying if more such things would be implemented then yes, it takes away DCS from us.

OMG no... please enough with the gamey helpers. This is a simulation!

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OK, actually, if ED wants to add helpers exclusive to Game Flight mode, I don't really care, unless this takes a life of its own and detracts development. Most servers don't allow Game X mode anyway, so it won't be unfair to others and will never become a prominent feature.

 

Also, it's not about being selfish or wanting to hold my ability over that of others. It's about keeping DCS true to itself and moving towards the right direction. And for me, that means that DCS needs to become more complicated and/or realistic. That's all. And I think other people here want that too. We're not as*****s, we simply disagree. Some of us more constructively and tactfully than others, true, but at the end of the day, it's just that.

 

Also, I'm sure you'll find a lot of people willing to help.


Edited by Harker

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I just don’t get the “I don’t have time” reasoning. Yeah when I first got “flying games” (I wouldn’t call that game a “sim”) I was convinced no amount of practice at all would allow me to even turn.

But building skills at this is really rewarding. It’s what the whole genre is about. This isn’t some storyline game you spend 12 hours on and then quit and move on. I expect to put in hundreds of hours on one of these modules. I want to spend time on it. I don’t want anything made easier or simplified. That’s the whole purpose here. Get yourself into the mindset to make hundreds of landing attempts. I just spent a whole week on Carrier landings and still suck at it but I’ll keep it up till I got it. This is DCS and that’s what it’s all about :pilotfly:

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apparently all these people have time enough to take off, fly long enough to warrant an autopilot and a refuel, and then land, yet they 'don't have enough time' to do any of them

 

no, it's all bs. you have time, you are choosing not to spend it learning anything. you just want to be able to feel good without putting in any work -- but let me tell you something, you can have your easy aar and lie to yourself that you can fly all you want but you will never feel the real gratification that only comes with overcoming a challenge, and you will cry on the forum wondering why the game feels so boring and unrewarding when the problem can only start and end with yourself.

 

im just trying to save you grief of your own creation

but of course nobody heeded the warning about the monkey's paw either.


Edited by probad
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Why are some people here so selfish. Just because you don't want something doesn't make it wrong!

Has nothing to do with right or wrong, it's about the purity of the sim. Otherwise, I'll go back to the other civil stuff if that's where its going. If we are not careful, we will be able to achieve 5000 KIAS and have dialogue pop up windows every second.

 

Yes; everyone has the right to want what they want, but there has to be a limit for the sake of the sim. My opinion only!

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I really don't mind, if easy AAR was an option, why not ? if it can help keeping or bringing more simmers to DCS...As long as you can play DCS at maximum realism if YOU want.

 

 

"It's a simulator !!!"...."the purity of the sim"....So we probably have to remove game mode, remove unlimited ammo, invincible pilot, each time a pilot eject twice he should be dismissed, simmers wearing glasses shouldn't be authorized, every time a plane crash you should have to rebuy the module, realistic weather should be the only option, easy radio communication should be removed, fictionnal skins shouldn't be allowed, turbulences and birds should be enabled......I can keep for a long time like this. Of course, this is bullshit :)

 

 

The wider the sanbox, the healtier it is ;). And sorry but NO, it won't take that much time to enlarge the zone where the basket consider you are connected and refuel your plane...


Edited by nanucq

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I really don't mind, if easy AAR was an option, why not ? if it can help keeping or bringing more simmers to DCS...As long as you can play DCS at maximum realism if YOU want.

 

 

"It's a simulator !!!"...."the purity of the sim"....So we probably have to remove game mode, remove unlimited ammo, invincible pilot, each time a pilot eject twice he should be dismissed, simmers wearing glasses shouldn't be authorized, every time a plane crash you should have to rebuy the module, realistic weather should be the only option, easy radio communication should be removed, fictionnal skins shouldn't be allowed, turbulences and birds should be enabled......I can keep for a long time like this. Of course, this is bullshit :)

 

 

The wider the sanbox, the healtier it is ;). And sorry but NO, it won't take that much time to enlarge the zone where the basket consider you are connected and refuel your plane...

More simmers will come regardless. More so for the authenticity of it. If you cannot understand the legacy and purity of a product then so be it. Let's add cheesy dialogue and other crap too!There are other markets out there for the arcade type people as mentioned before. And I have no problem with the features you mentioned being gone as I've never used them. Never mentioned removing anything either! Adding more useless cheats at the behest of individuals who want it "their way" is my issue. Particularly when they wont take the time to read and/or learn from the plethora of information at their fingertips. I like to learn what I've paid for. Like I said before, have cheats if you must, but don't be surprised when this turns into something that belongs on an Xbox or PS5.

 

Let's get proper airfield and ship comms for DCS which is sorely needed. Let's get the Carrier Ops where that should and eventually will be. More procedural tasking and effects.

 

Btw, if you get close enough to the basket in DCS, it kind of latches on anyway. So there's already a cheat there; intentional or not!

 

Why would you purchase a Ferrari and treat it like a Prius(ew)?

DO it or Don't, but don't cry about it. Real men don't cry!

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Why would you purchase a Ferrari and treat it like a Prius(ew)?

 

Why do ferrari's have traction control, launch control, parking sensors, cruise control, electronic stability control and all kinds of "cheats" that are useless or even hurt performance on the track, but make them more driveable to non racing drivers? Maybe because it helps sell them? Maybe the market for non racing drivers who buy a ferrari to be seen in it, or have their idea of fun in it is bigger than the market of trained racing drivers who buy it to use on a circuit? Maybe the sales to non professional racing drivers allow Ferrari to keep developing racing cars ? Or do you think Ferrari would still be around if it only catered for professional circuit drivers?


Edited by Vertigo72
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Why do ferrari's have traction control, launch control, parking sensors, cruise control, electronic stability control and all kinds of "cheats" that are useless or even hurt performance on the track, but make them more driveable to non racing drivers? Maybe because it helps sell them? Maybe the market for non racing drivers who buy a ferrari to be seen in it, or have their idea of fun in it is bigger than the market of trained racing drivers who buy it to use on a circuit? Maybe the sales to non professional racing drivers allow Ferrari to keep developing racing cars ? Or do you think Ferrari would still be around if it only catered for professional circuit drivers?

 

Thanks Vertigo, you just made me feel like a professional "racing driver" :pilotfly:

 

I like your comparison :thumbup:

 

 

Back on topic:

I said it before, I don't have issues with adding a cheat for AAR, but I must say, AAR is currently already pretty forgiving tbh.

Countless times I closed in on the basket without being properly aligned and just when I'm about to move back for another try, the basket magically pops onto my probe (difficult not to talk dirty on this subject :P)

Also I had the basket move through my cockpit plenty of times due to having no collision model.

 

In my opinion, AAR could indeed be improved, but rather by making it more difficult/realistic :)

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Countless times I closed in on the basket without being properly aligned and just when I'm about to move back for another try, the basket magically pops onto my probe (difficult not to talk dirty on this subject :P)

Also I had the basket move through my cockpit plenty of times due to having no collision model.

 

Yes, the drogue modeling needs a lot of improvements for realism. It doesn't have a good flight modeling and collision modeling completely is needing improvement.

 

In my opinion, AAR could indeed be improved, but rather by making it more difficult/realistic :)

 

Just improve the simulation of it, and add the "Easy AAR" mode and adjustable level for it.

So when the player is ready to disable the "Easy AAR" mode, they get full simulation.

 

 

 

Would be like to have that level of simulation and physics modeling. Maybe it would make some of people here to change their opinions for wanting that "Easy AAR" after all as they likely would need to become more humble. As even best of the best pilots are having difficulties in real life, systems failures are not unheard etc.

 

So, lets give a time for ED to really start simulating air refueling properly and we see....

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"It's a simulator !!!"...."the purity of the sim"....So we probably have to remove game mode, remove unlimited ammo, invincible pilot, each time a pilot eject twice he should be dismissed, simmers wearing glasses shouldn't be authorized, every time a plane crash you should have to rebuy the module, realistic weather should be the only option, easy radio communication should be removed, fictionnal skins shouldn't be allowed, turbulences and birds should be enabled......

 

By all means these simplifications and cheats should be removed and all realistic features forced on. Mind you some of these can be used as tools ("unlimited" ones) in sandbox testing environment so not only game play counts. About simulation of pilot's life or career - you might have mistaken it for Sims-like life sim game.

 

Or do you think Ferrari would still be around if it only catered for professional circuit drivers?

 

Wait, are you trying to inject your new business plan for ED again, Vertigo? I'd prefer DCS to be catered towards people who want as much realistic experience as possible not casual or console gamers - that's not the target of this product. Hopefully the coming MAC will take over here.

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Thanks Vertigo, you just made me feel like a professional "racing driver" :pilotfly:

 

I like your comparison :thumbup:

 

Its not mine, Im just continuing someone else's analogy. And while both of you seem to like the analogy, and you seem to embrace its snobbish connotation, you are both oblivious to its implications. You are like a ferrarista who wants the airconditioning, electric windows and seat upholstery removed from his car. That is fine. Ferrari will happily do that for you.

 

But some of you actually want Ferrari to not offer those things to others. Thats a problem. Because those Saudi princes and pop stars that want airco and need traction control are the ones paying for the development of your next racing car.

 

Likewise, unless you are willing to pay professional prices for actual military simulation prices, you need to ensure the game has a wide enough appeal to support its development.

 

Now I dont think easy AAR will do a lot for that, but its the mindset here that scares me. At the same time there seems to be an extreme resistance to changing the business model of a free game core with optional paid modules, implying an expectation the core will be updated and improved in to perpetuity for free, AND a resistance to making the game more accessible to a wider audience. I just dont see how people think that is sustainable.

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By all means these simplifications and cheats should be removed and all realistic features forced on.

 

No. We can't do that for various reasons. The main reason is such a thing called as "Fun".

 

Our fun for high realism is not others fun. And we need to understand that we need to support fun at various levels, even with or without cheats.

 

Mind you some of these can be used as tools ("unlimited" ones) in sandbox testing environment so not only game play counts. About simulation of pilot's life or career - you might have mistaken it for Sims-like life sim game.

 

We need various "easy X" modes and levels for each of them. Like "Unlimited fuel" should have such options like you can set the percentage of fuel that is maintained. So if you set 55% fuel, then you never lose or gain more fuel but maintain 55% fuel level.

 

 

Wait, are you trying to inject your new business plan for ED again, Vertigo? I'd prefer DCS to be catered towards people who want as much realistic experience as possible not casual or console gamers - that's not the target of this product. Hopefully the coming MAC will take over here.

 

So you want FC3 product to be deleted.

You want all the possibilities to bind any other feature than real throttle and joystick has to your HOTAS.

You want that G forces starts to affect how quickly or how much you can turn your camera.

You want that you can't never change laser codes in the aircraft but only when rearming.

You want of course 15-30 minute turn times as minimum, only few special aircraft's designed for that like Viggen.

 

All such things can be done, but they should be optional, even as default we would need to have all kind "easy X" things and capabilities like bind a landing gear leveler to throttle or have external cameras views and so on.

 

Sorry, but DCS must be for wide variation of the gamers. It can't be done only for extremely hard core fans. No matter how much we want HC features, we MUST as well accept that not everyone are able, or want to, fly in highest immersion and highest difficulty by various reasons.

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Wearing glasses isn't something you would be put to ground in a real airforce. You don't have to have perfect vision.

 

In French Air Forces, no fighter pilot will be recruited without a perfect vision. Maybe we should put this restriction only to the M2000 ? :lol:

 

By all means these simplifications and cheats should be removed and all realistic features forced on....

That's the beauty of it, you can have YOUR perfect sim TODAY, without waiting for any ED update, force yourself to a strict self discipline.

 

Well, I won't reply to all the quotes that have been made on my previous comment, some of you are just overreacting about a feature they are not interested in. You have to understand that your vision of DCS is not shared by all simmers, some want full realism and some just want to have fun and some want all of this. As long as development don't interferate with all "communities", I don't see any problem for OPTIONS, really.

 

I love DCS because it can be as realistic as possible comparing to other sims, I played DCS for 6 years (and Flanker way before) mainly in single player (building my own scenarios) because of some elites, bought mostly all modules, but I never post about features I don't want as long as they don't disturb me in my daily use of DCS. Once again, 1000 simmers = 1000 differents opinions. Why make you think that your is better than another one ?

 

Will I use an easy AAR ? Probably not, but I don't care if it's added to the GAME (Yes, it's just a GAME), i barely never have to do an AAR...

 

Just relax mates, it's a game, nothing else :smilewink:


Edited by nanucq

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By all means these simplifications and cheats should be removed and all realistic features forced on.

 

Absolutely. It is outrageous that for instance some users skip the cold start procedure, because they won't bother to learn to flip all the right switches in the right order, or because they allegedly do not have the time or because it is "not fun".

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