[REPORTED]MIG 29S has huge bounce on landing

here is another video plus track

 

observation: to me it seems like compared to the DCS Flanker on landing the MiG loads up with AOA much faster and also can develop excessive sink rate quickly if not having the pilot pay attention to it, one of the problems I have is while looking at VVI or better yet, constantly staring at it while giving managing back-pressure with stick and moving the throttles... If I don't every so often look at the AOA scale I can find it has built upto around 15 degrees AOA, sometimes I do feel buffeting warning of an approaching stall by the cockpit shake but landing the MiG seems very unforgiving unlike the Flanker. Even in the flare for landing / round out the Flanker is not building so much AOA and feels like stalling. I can hike the nose up in the Flanker without fear of excessive sink rate or AOA on the landing flare and touch the wheels down smooth and gentle as well as maintain the nose high for aerobraking.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qS9ajaHXDb4qOKvu53P6vUnhGnr_on-S/view?usp=sharing

 

 

Su-27 landing for comparison:

 

If I stop your MiG-29S video right before the touch down at 1:24, in the last second:

PTH (Pitch) = 5 degrees

AoA = 10 degrees (9.9)

That means that you actual flight path in the last moment is 5 degrees steep! (3 degrees is the ususal ILS appoach GS)

So instead of flaring your vertical speed increases a LOT just before touch down.

Might be wrong but I think your actual touch down vertical speed in that vid is 6.7 m/s or 1320 feet/minute. Thats kinda too much for a carrier landing imo...

here he lands at around 10 AOA and vertical speed near 5 m/s

No, his actual touch down vertical speed is nowhere near 5 m/s.

That is a very smooth landing where you can hear, that he only reduces to idle right after the touch down

i’m on my phone so it’s hard for me to tell exactly with the smaller screen but I do notice he doesn’t bring it near 0 until after touchdown

You can't tell exactly, it is impossible, because VSI has a delay, so that it reads 5 m/s during the approach gives you zero information about the actual touch down descent rate.

5 m/s is already quite a lot for touch down rate, you'd certainly notice even just looking at the vid. Thats the kind of touch down vertical speed you can see on a youtube hard landing vid, you know, big bang, passengers shouting :)

even if there is delay in the instrument you can see the historical VVI rate

here is F-15 landing gear failure

this is MiG-29 K obviously, but it shows you very well how the landing gear is stressed on landing

Love that MiG-21 video, it's awesome, really shows how durable that plane is

Back on the subject, a 5 m/s vs landing means smashing the plane on the runway with no flare at all. That is clearly not what happens in the 29 cockpit videos.

The VSI won't show you an exact history of what happened. Also you are watching it from a different position in the vid so it's not even accurate, but if you watch it closely it shows aroud -2 around the touch down.

The MiG-29K video shows the kind of landing you did in DCS regarding the vertical speed on touch down.

still there is no flinging the aircraft 10 m into the air tendencies.

https://www.aeronewstv.com/mobile/3744-sukhoi-su-35-fighter-jet-performs-acrobatic-landing.html

The MiG-29K video shows the kind of landing you did in DCS regarding the vertical speed on touch down.

you do realize that landing was intentional for testing the landing behaviors right? Landing the plane within normal parameters is not going to show what problem people are experiencing.

still there is no flinging the aircraft 10 m into the air tendencies.

 

https://www.aeronewstv.com/mobile/3744-sukhoi-su-35-fighter-jet-performs-acrobatic-landing.html

Wow that was scary. :thumbup:

That Sukhoi did not bounce it's nose gear though, so it is very different scenario.

If you watch your 29S video, what happens is that after the first impact it bounces off the main wheels, but not high, after that your plane touches down nose first and bounces off the nose gear, sending the nose high

nose high--->high AoA (you are still going fast)----> lift is produced--> bigger bounce

On the third impact, I think that your nose gear should simply collapse...

Yes, exactly, but I think that this is the point, at moment of the attached screenshot, where this flight should end in flames. Just before the last bounce. I'd be amazed of the front gear survived something like this RL.

Picture shows the impact after the second bounce.

that wasn’t my initial touchdown either but what happened later

that wasn’t my initial touchdown either but what happened later

No, of course not. Sorry I don't want to make your flying look bad, just that screen looks like a good illustration to me.

this is what instruments were showing at the exact moment of impact, which btw was all 3 wheels on the ground simultaneously

29crash3.trk

Interesting!

So around 4,5 G was the impact. That is a lot.

here is track for that flight, I also have video of several landing attempts here too I slowed it down so I could watch the landing gear strut behavior

also I noticed when I landed short into the grass just before the runway the spring back up into the air behavior was less

And these are all missions for landing the MiG-29 provided by Eagle Dynamics that I have not edited in any way, so all the environmental factors and starting aircraft weight and payloads, etc has not been set by me

okay I found something very interesting I want to show everyone, I still bounce on this landing but this time it is manageable and I land safely because the nose wheel didn't touch the ground by just mm

Also the drag chute deployment animation is kinda strange

29lnd1.trk

still there is no flinging the aircraft 10 m into the air tendencies.

 

https://www.aeronewstv.com/mobile/3744-sukhoi-su-35-fighter-jet-performs-acrobatic-landing.html

Watch the video. He never lets the nose wheel touch the ground until nearly all energy is dissipated. In your numerous videos you have the nose wheel touching the ground first. Especially after a bounce. He bounces and doesn't let the nose wheel fall.

I don't think airliners are going to accurately depict what a fighter jet is going to experience when hitting the ground, fighter jets are far more robust and built with survivability and combat in mind

I mean pretty much because it is a hollow metal tube much like a soda can

Harrier doesn't have tricycle landing gear arrangement but here is one hitting hard to the ground:

Here is F-16 going too fast to slow down and overrunning the runway right into the grass at an airshow:

belly landing of F-16 into the grass during flight testing based on the livery of the plane, yes it does bounce too:

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this. It’s been an interesting several days (not in a good way). I know you took issue with the high nose up as I tried to lose some speed. Here it is again. There is a bit of bounce from that height unlike in the video you posted. I think it’s there, though, because of what you have to do in order not to blow out the DCS chute—throttle back to just about idle. I’m sure he didn’t.

I wasn’t able to tell in your videos whether you were doing it or not but the cardinal sin in this aircraft is to cut the throttle prior to touchdown. If you do, you will hit hard with your nose beginning to swing downward. If you watch the video closely, you’ll see the aircraft begin to fall out of the sky (throttle cut), then the chute comes out. Luckily I did both close enough together that the nose didn’t have enough time to gain significant momentum.

Anyway, FWIW, it feels to me like there’s a bit too much bounce to the nose but hopefully they’ll figure it out.

that does look better except for that crazy nose bouncing lol... Try landing bouncing only the main gear while keeping the nose wheel from ever touching the ground it has a completely different behavior

I added track of me successfully landing just so you guys know I can land the MiG-29 but to be honest she feels like she wants to fall out of the sky in the landing configuration just flying around the airbase... I don't even really know how you are able to do that base perch turn for final because she wants to build AOA so high, you must be going just under 350 km/hr in that turn just to make it for final and that also explains why the long run down the runway before touching the wheels on the ground, you have to slow down to touchdown. Also, no idea how you made that turn that tight without stalling out the plane in the process

29lnd3.trk

. Try landing bouncing only the main gear while keeping the nose wheel from ever touching the ground it has a completely different behavior...

Done that more than once when I’ve come screaming in not really caring how smooth it was. :)

...to be honest she feels like she wants to fall out of the sky in the landing configuration just flying around the airbase...

You have to keep the throttle up, especially in a level turn where you’re not using gravity to help your airspeed.

I don't even really know how you are able to do that base perch turn for final because she wants to build AOA so high, you must be going just under 350 km/hr in that turn just to make it for final and that also explains why the long run down the runway before touching the wheels on the ground, you have to slow down to touchdown. Also, no idea how you made that turn that tight without stalling out the plane in the process

Just used the throttle and gravity. Started the turn at around 400km/hr and went down from there. The long trip down the runway was because I wanted to approach the correct height above the runway slowly so that I didn’t blow through it before I released the chute. Otherwise, I would have dropped in lower earlier and the touchdown would have occurred much sooner. But I figured I had the whole runway to play with and I only had the time for that one attempt.