Saturating S300 with JSOW - Page 6 - ED Forums
 


Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-26-2019, 12:17 PM   #51
Harker
Member
 
Harker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: France
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
I'm not sure how the sam logic works, or the ME for the most part. But could you have it pop off more than a single missile at a time against a target? I.e. engage 2 targets with 4 missiles each. And displace after that. Or Engage targets, after they are dead, displace to a pre-planned secondary location a few miles away.
I don't think you can specify the amount of missiles to be used.

There are, however, several triggers that can be of use to determine whether a Unit is dead (UNIT DEAD, use for all units of a Group to verify that a Group is dead) or whether a SAM's area of responsibility is clear of enemy aircraft and it can safely pack up and move (ALL OF COALITION OUT OF ZONE, GROUP OUTSIDE ZONE).

You can use these as triggers and then use AI TASK PUSH or activate flags and then use FLAG IS TRUE or another FLAG trigger. It really depends how you want to go about it and you can usually achieve what you want with more than one ways, assuming what you want can be done by the AI, reliably.
__________________
Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, i7-8700k @4.9GHz, RTX2080Ti FTW3 Ultra @2130MHz, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR4 @3000CL15, Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, WD Gold 6TB, Seasonic Prime Platinum 1300W, Acer Predator XB271HK|Warthog w/extension, TPR pedals, 3 Cougar MFDs, MT desk mounts, TrackIR w/Pro clip, Win10 x64 Home|
F/A-18C, F-16C, AV-8B, A-10C, M-2000C, F-14, P-51D, Sptifire, BS2, FC3, Caucasus, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf
Harker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 01:22 PM   #52
Tippis
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harker View Post
I don't think you can specify the amount of missiles to be used.

There are, however, several triggers that can be of use to determine whether a Unit is dead (UNIT DEAD, use for all units of a Group to verify that a Group is dead) or whether a SAM's area of responsibility is clear of enemy aircraft and it can safely pack up and move (ALL OF COALITION OUT OF ZONE, GROUP OUTSIDE ZONE).

You can use these as triggers and then use AI TASK PUSH or activate flags and then use FLAG IS TRUE or another FLAG trigger. It really depends how you want to go about it and you can usually achieve what you want with more than one ways, assuming what you want can be done by the AI, reliably.
The best you can do without going into heavy scripting is to simply count the number of the SAM unit's own missiles have gone through a zone — once enough have been fired, it fires off a task push that suppresses further firing and tells the unit to move to a different spot. It's a bit kludge:y and cumbersome to set up, but should work.
Tippis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 01:34 PM   #53
Harker
Member
 
Harker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: France
Posts: 515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippis View Post
The best you can do without going into heavy scripting is to simply count the number of the SAM unit's own missiles have gone through a zone — once enough have been fired, it fires off a task push that suppresses further firing and tells the unit to move to a different spot. It's a bit kludge:y and cumbersome to set up, but should work.
Yeah, that's one way to see it. I saw it as specifically telling the SAM to launch 4 missiles at each target.

If, for example, you have 2 targets, set the trigger for 8 SAM missiles and the SAM launches 3 missiles per target and succeeds in killing them, it won't launch more missiles and the trigger won't activate.
Although you can bypass it with an OR. MISSILE IN ZONE(TYPE, OR COALITION OUT OF ZONE/UNIT DEAD. One of the two conditions will trigger.
__________________
Z370 Aorus Gaming 7, i7-8700k @4.9GHz, RTX2080Ti FTW3 Ultra @2130MHz, Corsair Vengeance 32GB DDR4 @3000CL15, Samsung 960 Pro 512 GB, 970 Evo Plus 1TB, WD Gold 6TB, Seasonic Prime Platinum 1300W, Acer Predator XB271HK|Warthog w/extension, TPR pedals, 3 Cougar MFDs, MT desk mounts, TrackIR w/Pro clip, Win10 x64 Home|
F/A-18C, F-16C, AV-8B, A-10C, M-2000C, F-14, P-51D, Sptifire, BS2, FC3, Caucasus, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf
Harker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2019, 05:19 PM   #54
Harlikwin
Senior Member
 
Harlikwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,801
Default

The ME sounds very simple to use and very user friendly (I've used it to set up only the most basic missions)

Good to know that it can be done though.

It would be even better if it could be abstracted so that you have your sam site, and a few other defined alternate sites and it would automagically displace to those after an engagement.
__________________
New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1
Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Harlikwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 02:41 AM   #55
j-tk
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hot, Humid Mississippi
Posts: 213
Default

Me and my buddy did this today, each carrying 4 JSOW with bomblets. All I can say is, God looked down at that site, and said FU to that spot in general by the time the last explosion ended.


Last edited by j-tk; 06-27-2019 at 02:46 AM.
j-tk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2019, 08:47 PM   #56
Rick50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Posts: 71
Default

One thing to consider is that the spacing is no necessarily an "all or nothing" choice. Just because you might in RL spread them 40-80km away, doesn't mean you need or even WANT to spread them out that much, as several have pointed out. BUT... that also doesn't mean it really makes sense to always pack them close together like on a single soccer field, easily taken out by a single AG weapon.

Maybe spreading the parts out by say 1 KM for a small concentrated site, to maybe spread over say 5 km for a more survivable configuration, might be more desirable. Still close enough that they could install hardwire comms if needed, launch bearing might be more accurate than if the radar is 40km from the missile launching... but also require the strike package to do more recon, have more intel, and put in a lot more effort to down that SA-10 than if they are all packed nice and close.
Rick50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2019, 09:43 PM   #57
Fri13
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,158
Default

There is difference in a dedicated SAM site in a peace time, than a SAM site in a war time.

You don't make a SAM site that construction takes week(s) and then believe that enemy in the war time doesn't know it or have not studied it and prepared to destroy it with a single tactical bomb.

What one can see in the satellite images are just "warehouse" of the SAM site. Once the tensions raises and possibility to war increases, all troops are mobilized, and one of the first ones that is mobilized is the SAM sites. They are moved, scattered and organized how they keep moving and relocating continually. Meaning that commander for SAM site A needs to know that He needs to be capable to defend given area and direction from clock X to Y, and meanwhile the other sites can be relocating to take their time later.

What the DCS has as SAM, is far from realistic.
We do not even have a realistic individual ground unit like BMP-2 or LAV-25 that all has a all seeing perfect visibility from inside the vehicle, with perfect aiming without any tracking systems and even stabilization systems to hit a fast mover.

We have magical ground units that stops firing immediately when target is "low in health", but before that they are ready to put out everything they have to reach that level. Meaning that a simple local defence SAM system like Strela-10 is firing all its missiles on the burning and falling aircraft as long its pilot is alive and kicking, wasting all the missiles because it needs to "get it", and no matter that you launch 4 missiles in couple seconds periods, because why not to empty your loadout to first seen target?

This all should be actually controlled by unique AI that is dedicated for each such groups, and let the different AI's to communicate among each others with realistic delays for command, information sharing and timings etc.

That is likely coming in the RTS elements that ED is developing, as we are getting those SAM NEZ traps etc.

But someone thinking at all that S-300 site infrastructure would be located in a football size field so a couple dumb bombs could be just tossed there blindly from 20-30km distance, nevertheless a TV guided bomb.... That is just foolish.

Even a normal Grotale or BUK SAM sites has kilometers spread between launchers and radars and command posts. You are not going to bomb anything else than a single launcher or single radar (that has backup radars once detected SEAD against the active one).
And before you get even close to those, you have lots of other AA to get past.

And if someone wants to know how funny it is to be pulling a cables through the forest whole night worth of kilometers to get communication networks done....
__________________
i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 1080Ti SLI 11GB, Oculus CV1.
i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 60" HDR 4K.
Fri13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 03:22 PM   #58
Harlikwin
Senior Member
 
Harlikwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post

And if someone wants to know how funny it is to be pulling a cables through the forest whole night worth of kilometers to get communication networks done....
Thats why there's LPI/LPD datalinks (yeah yeah I know...)
__________________
New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1
Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).
Harlikwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2019, 10:47 PM   #59
Banzaiib
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 538
Default

time = distance / velocity (assuming no acceleration)

figure out the average flight speed of your JSOW and the distance you want to release them, then you can figure out when you should fire the HARMs.
Banzaiib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2019, 07:49 PM   #60
JB3DG
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 173
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
What the DCS has as SAM, is far from realistic.
We do not even have a realistic individual ground unit like BMP-2 or LAV-25 that all has a all seeing perfect visibility from inside the vehicle, with perfect aiming without any tracking systems and even stabilization systems to hit a fast mover.

This...I actually feared BMP-2s and BMP-3s more than Shilkas in the A-10. I could sneak up on a Shilka and dodge its fire more easily than a BMP-2. And when I did get hit, I took way less damage. The BMP-2s however, never missed when they opened fire, and I usually took way more damage.
JB3DG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:41 AM. vBulletin Skin by ForumMonkeys. Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.