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[FIXED] Cockpit/Windscreen Bar


Veteran66

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This thread brings back lots of old memories of similar arguments in various flightsims concerning the FW190...Air Warrior, Aces High, IL2...always the view or angles are wrong...always the developers crying we built it exactly like the real thing...always the developers not quite able to simulate all the factors: realistic cockpit geometry(solved early on), 6deg of freedom head movement(solved with trackIR), actual flying angle of attack (lots of debate here, seems solved in DCS), and now glass refraction (probably need to wait for ray tracing).

 

I wonder if we can get the DCS A8 to do that snap roll trim on a slider trick from Air Warrior that would put you on the tail of a Spit every time...lol.


Edited by unltd

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and now glass refraction (probably need to wait for ray tracing).

 

There's already a different model for the cockpit interior that replaces some of the exterior model when you're viewing from in-cockpit. All they need to do is make that model match what you see from the interior, not what's actually there. It won't matter if it's not right on the outside as you can't put your head outside (VR cheating excepted). And anyone viewing externally will see the proper external model.

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I really hope this gets sorted out... I'm waiting on this to get fixed to make my purchase. Same with D9... I already have that, so I hope when they redo the cockpit in that, they fix this.

 

P51 and spit doesn't have this problem? I have them, but don't remember. I think with spit we do, but not P51

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It won´t be corrected until the graphics-cards can calculate refraction without impairing the FPS significantly.

 

Refraction_photo.png

Source: Wikipedia

 

 

And no, someone who can´t hit another aircraft because he/she thinks it is due to the bar, still won´t hit anything even without the bar.

E.G. me. I´m bad and I wont get better without the bar.

Adjust your seat´s height.

 

So why keep whining about something that ED is aware of, but can´t change due to external limitations?

As soon as NVidia and AMD implement refraction properly into their hardware, we can and should ask again.

But until then, repeating the bar problem again and again will only create a bad mood between us, the community, and ED.

And that is totally unnecessary.

 

 

Fox

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Hi Fox, DCS is a simulation why it will not simulate the true cockpit sight.

youe mean we wont the true sigth the shoot better, com on Boy ;)

 

i do not like this Cockpit sight because it does not show the reality.

 

we all know the developers can not simulate it, so some from us make suggestion how we can make it "better"

 

the best and easiest way is to make the glass frame from inside transparent, it solve the glass thickness but not the refraction.

 

It will be a good Compromise :)

 

(sorry for my bad english)

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Hi Fox, DCS is a simulation why it will not simulate the true cockpit sight.

youe mean we wont the true sigth the shoot better, com on Boy ;)

 

i do not like this Cockpit sight because it does not show the reality.

 

we all know the developers can not simulate it, so some from us make suggestion how we can make it "better"

 

the best and easiest way is to make the glass frame from inside transparent, it solve the glass thickness but not the refraction.

 

It will be a good Compromise :)

 

(sorry for my bad english)

"...com on Boy" <-really?

How the hell do you think I don´t want a true cockpit sight?:doh:

 

...suggest how to make it "better"? That is subjective. I wouldn´t like the proposed ideas, so it´s not better for me. And now?

 

Then why stop there? The next guy will ask for another compromise here and there.

If you make too many compromises the simulation gets washed out of this software. You can´t make a compromises, if you want the real view out of the FW-190. You need refraction. And again, if you can´t hit anything now, you won´t hit anything even with refraction either.

 

 

Fox

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And no, someone who can´t hit another aircraft because he/she thinks it is due to the bar, still won´t hit anything even without the bar.
:lol::lol::lol::lol: +1000 :thumbup:

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I have to agree though, this is a good time for a compromise. If we can't have refraction, then we can at least make it transparent, like the rest of the glass. For the Dora as well.

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Why not have an option to remove the bar like the gunsight in the L-39? It's only a few bits of the 3d model that make the 45 degree bar and could be replaced with a version that is closer to 90 degrees and doesn't obstruct the view.

 

Even if it seems to irritates some people but the background is sales. By now many people will have decided not to buy the Anton in this form because it would frustrate them too much to look at the bar. It's like buying a new LCD monitor where the lower 5cm are covered with a brown sticker "computers cannot simulate refraction yet".

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By now many people will have decided not to buy the Anton in this form because it would frustrate them too much to look at the bar.

 

Sarcasm? Surely.

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Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

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Why not have an option to remove the bar like the gunsight in the L-39? It's only a few bits of the 3d model that make the 45 degree bar and could be replaced with a version that is closer to 90 degrees and doesn't obstruct the view.
I don't think it's that easy. Probably that "only few bits" means destroying the 3D model which would had to be redone. To fake refraction even all the whole top cowling should have to be redone. Then the usual bitch it all will go out the cockpit with VR and see that faked and distorted whole nose to complain how bad it is.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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The interior 3d model is not the same as the exterior. And you can't look at both at the same time.
You can view both when you just look outside. You can see cockpits and the nose or wings or tail.

Model of the Spitfire cockpitcec64097e0b176f02a850473029f7bfb.jpg

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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The interior 3d model is not the same as the exterior. And you can't look at both at the same time.
In VR people go outside the cockpit but they are seeing the "internal model" that way, not F2 external model, and they complain about it even though you aren't supposed to go outside the cockpit once sitting inside.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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"...com on Boy" <-really?

How the hell do you think I don´t want a true cockpit sight?:doh:

 

...suggest how to make it "better"? That is subjective. I wouldn´t like the proposed ideas, so it´s not better for me. And now?

 

Then why stop there? The next guy will ask for another compromise here and there.

If you make too many compromises the simulation gets washed out of this software. You can´t make a compromises, if you want the real view out of the FW-190. You need refraction. And again, if you can´t hit anything now, you won´t hit anything even with refraction either.

 

 

Fox

 

If you raise your head then you lose sight of the crosshairs in the gunsight. If you center the crosshairs in the gunsight then anything below the aim-point is blocked by the frame. How is this not an impediment to aiming? As you're almost always leading your target, any restriction of the ability to see down your nose is a serious impediment to aiming.

 

The top edge of the lower windscreen frame should be extended down to be made flush with the top of the cowling. The frame sides should be made thinner as well to simulate the effect of the refraction. (Both of these changes would be to the interior model only, of course. The external model will be unaffected.) Yes, there's blisters for the guns on either side that are already almost flush with the "bar" but there's a channel down the middle you can see and aim through. No, it's not geometrically correct but it will *look* correct and that's all that matters in this application.


Edited by SMH
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Of course anything suggested concerning windscreen refraction should not be a mandatory feature. But I don't think anyone would complain if an option was in the settings, "simulate windscreen refraction" with proper warning "not realistic but can give a more realistic field of view to a lot of people".

 

Whatever you can say how unrealistic this is, the current solution is completely unsatisfying. You look at the most important part of the cockpit for a pilot and can see nothing but brown because of the 3d model.

 

There was a shot in the German debunking video where an entire house disappeared behind the cardboard, completely ridiculous.

 

ca 9:00

 

The L-39 has the option to dismount the gunsight and it makes a whole lot difference, and there should be something similar for the Focke Wulf windscreen, otherwise the plane is useless to me.

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Honestly the edge of the glass, as it is now, isn't as impeding as some of you make it to be. Like the Spitfire, aiming requires a bit of intuition. The problem can easily be gotten around in the meantime with practice. So practice!

 

Also, in the video, there doesn't appear to be any distortion at all, when the camera is in position of where the head will be. So, I think a good solution for the time being is making that edge of the frame transparent, just like the rest of the glass, instead of the rusty brown it is now.

Hardware: T-16000M Pack, Saitek 3 Throttle Quadrant, Homemade 32-function Leo Bodnar Button Box, MFG Crosswind Pedals Oculus Rift S

System Specs: MSI MPG X570 GAMING PLUS, GTX 1070 SC2, AMD RX3700, 32GB DDR4-3200, Samsung 860 EVO, Samsung 970 EVO 250GB

Modules: Ka-50, Mi-8MTV2, FC3, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-5E, P-51D, Spitfire Mk LF Mk. IXc, Bf-109K-4, Fw-190A-8

Maps: Normandy, Nevada

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Of course anything suggested concerning windscreen refraction should not be a mandatory feature. But I don't think anyone would complain if an option was in the settings, "simulate windscreen refraction" with proper warning "not realistic but can give a more realistic field of view to a lot of people".

 

Whatever you can say how unrealistic this is, the current solution is completely unsatisfying. You look at the most important part of the cockpit for a pilot and can see nothing but brown because of the 3d model.

 

There was a shot in the German debunking video where an entire house disappeared behind the cardboard, completely ridiculous.

 

ca 9:00

 

The L-39 has the option to dismount the gunsight and it makes a whole lot difference, and there should be something similar for the Focke Wulf windscreen, otherwise the plane is useless to me.

 

Of course an option would be okay. No question about that. But saying this plane is useless as it is right now, is totally exaggerated.

 

Fox

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PC Specs: Ryzen 9 5900X, 3080ti, 64GB RAM, Oculus Quest 3

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I guess you think either Fw190 is useless in every other sim out there since ever modelled exactly like that. Right?

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I like the DCS Fw190 A8 Cockpit, only the glass frame is too thick if you look through the glass.

I was sitting in an original Fw 190 A8 and could not detect a disturbing frame.

 

so what is real and what we need in a simulation?

 

Other WW2 flight simulations make a Compromise, i hope here too.

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so what is real and what we need in a simulation?
Refraction is real, but too taxing performances wise. Though, since rain drops do have sort of refraction I would like to see how taxing it is actually.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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