A-10 gun reticule modelling in DCS series

I think I recall that this might have been discussed in the FC2 forum, but I don't recall a definitive answer for the DCS: A-10 so I hope it's not a problem to bring this up again.

An A-10 pilot in a recent Combat Aircraft magazine article mentioned that the Sniper targeting pod brought them a much more precise gun engagements due to it's laser ranging. That prompted me to think about how the gun reticule position was calculated on the A-10 before the targeting pods were introduced, so I presume it had to be a simple calculation from the radar altimeter input plus the airplane pitch angle. This triggered a recollection of someone mentioning on the FC2 forum that radar altimeter was used and thus the targeting was rather imprecise if the airplane was overflying a non-flat terrain and the target ground level was not the same as the ground level beneath the aircraft (or maybe it's just my vivid imagination kicking in, in which case I apologise).

Now, I don't recall if this was commented as being simulated in FC2, but I wonder if this will be simulated in the DCS: A-10 when the Litening pod is not carried (or if it is damaged if such a thing will be modeled), as well as the more precise targeting based on the laser ranging info from the pod when it is in fact being carried. It's not a crucial point, but I think it's a rather interesting point nonetheless given the importance of the A-10's gun for its everyday operations.

Interesting. Considering that the version we are getting is similar to the one the ANG is getting, im sure it will all be simulated to a tee.

While I cannot answer your particular question at this point, I can tell you that the A-10C has a number of reticle options to help out when things aren't working as advertized.

Whether things fail to work as advertized is a different issue :)

I think I recall that this might have been discussed in the FC2 forum, but I don't recall a definitive answer for the DCS: A-10 so I hope it's not a problem to bring this up again.

 

An A-10 pilot in a recent Combat Aircraft magazine article mentioned that the Sniper targeting pod brought them a much more precise gun engagements due to it's laser ranging. That prompted me to think about how the gun reticule position was calculated on the A-10 before the targeting pods were introduced, so I presume it had to be a simple calculation from the radar altimeter input plus the airplane pitch angle. This triggered a recollection of someone mentioning on the FC2 forum that radar altimeter was used and thus the targeting was rather imprecise if the airplane was overflying a non-flat terrain and the target ground level was not the same as the ground level beneath the aircraft (or maybe it's just my vivid imagination kicking in, in which case I apologise).

 

Now, I don't recall if this was commented as being simulated in FC2, but I wonder if this will be simulated in the DCS: A-10 when the Litening pod is not carried (or if it is damaged if such a thing will be modeled), as well as the more precise targeting based on the laser ranging info from the pod when it is in fact being carried. It's not a crucial point, but I think it's a rather interesting point nonetheless given the importance of the A-10's gun for its everyday operations.

What magazine article were you reading? I would like to get a hold of it. Any info i can grab about the A-10C's systems are strongly desired right now.

I think I recall that this might have been discussed in the FC2 forum, but I don't recall a definitive answer for the DCS: A-10 so I hope it's not a problem to bring this up again.

 

An A-10 pilot in a recent Combat Aircraft magazine article mentioned that the Sniper targeting pod brought them a much more precise gun engagements due to it's laser ranging. That prompted me to think about how the gun reticule position was calculated on the A-10 before the targeting pods were introduced, so I presume it had to be a simple calculation from the radar altimeter input plus the airplane pitch angle. This triggered a recollection of someone mentioning on the FC2 forum that radar altimeter was used and thus the targeting was rather imprecise if the airplane was overflying a non-flat terrain and the target ground level was not the same as the ground level beneath the aircraft (or maybe it's just my vivid imagination kicking in, in which case I apologise).

 

Now, I don't recall if this was commented as being simulated in FC2, but I wonder if this will be simulated in the DCS: A-10 when the Litening pod is not carried (or if it is damaged if such a thing will be modeled), as well as the more precise targeting based on the laser ranging info from the pod when it is in fact being carried. It's not a crucial point, but I think it's a rather interesting point nonetheless given the importance of the A-10's gun for its everyday operations.

I was thinking about this question to and from work today, so thankyou for entertaining my brain for 80 mins! Your radalt theory seemed to be sound, except most radalts only go to 2500', which wouldn't be high enough.

Anyway I gave up and found this article:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030415000511/http://members.aol.com/Stravonski/private/gun.html

The gun also eliminates the need for many of the systems that have been considered standard on other attack aircraft since the late 1960s. Its shells travel at Mach 3; from 4,000ft (1,220m) they are on target in 1.2 seconds. This means that the movement of an MBT is irrelevant to the aiming problem; to the A-10, all ground targets are fixed. Because of the flat trajectory of the shells, too, the distance to the target does not have to be accurately estimated or measured. Within the normal maximum range, the trajectory is a straight line in front of the aircraft, represented by a fixed dot on the head-up display. The absence of inertial platforms, laser range finders and other systems from the weapon-aiming loop not only simplifies the aircraft, but makes the pilot's workload less as well. Without the point-and-fire simplicity of the GAU-8/A, the A-10 concept of maneuvering, medium-speed CAS with visual navigation and target acquisition would probably collapse due to excessive pilot workload.

So it turns out it uses nothing (well up until the lightening pod I guess).

Its a fricken laser.

I was thinking about this question to and from work today, so thankyou for entertaining my brain for 80 mins! Your radalt theory seemed to be sound, except most radalts only go to 2500', which wouldn't be high enough.

 

Anyway I gave up and found this article:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20030415000511/http://members.aol.com/Stravonski/private/gun.html

 

 

 

So it turns out it uses nothing (well up until the lightening pod I guess).

 

Its a fricken laser.

does the mean that FC2's gun reticule model is incorrect? They have a CCIP gun reticule.

No, FC2's reticle is just fine - it's one of the reticle options that the A-10 offers. There are others ;)

What magazine article were you reading? I would like to get a hold of it. Any info i can grab about the A-10C's systems are strongly desired right now.

When I said Combat Aircraft magazine, I really meant "Combat Aircraft" magazine :)

I like the magazine, but it's not an in-depth look into the avionics.. It's just a few pages of photos and some ANG pilots' comments about their Afghanistan experience. Though, they were the first (A-10?) unit to deploy with the SADL datalink so they mention the usefulness of that system, but don't go into much detail.

Hmm, regarding the gunsight reticule, perhaps I've mistaken it with the bomb CCIP reticule. How was that thing calculated?

You can enter target elevation into the CDU IIRC.

You can enter target elevation into the CDU IIRC.

Unless things have changed since the A model, you can indeed according to the flight manual. Whether or not that information is required/used to calculate an accurate CCIP impact point I don't know, but I wouldn't have thought so.

 

So it turns out it uses nothing (well up until the lightening pod I guess).

 

Its a fricken laser.

:megalol:

Amen, bro. I just learnt something new lol.

This triggered a recollection of someone mentioning on the FC2 forum that radar altimeter was used and thus the targeting was rather imprecise if the airplane was overflying a non-flat terrain and the target ground level was not the same as the ground level beneath the aircraft (or maybe it's just my vivid imagination kicking in, in which case I apologise).

That's one way of doing it, and not very accurate when flying over non-flat terrain, or when the angle is low (for far ranges, or the aircraft flies low). If I'm not mistaken the A-10A does have a better method though, it will point the radar for the radar altimeter along the gun barrel and use the radar for ranging.

The laser/no-laser has been simulated in Su-25 for a long time (since 1.01?). As for the "fricken laser", I think that was a description of a best-case scenario. If things were so perfect, there wouldn't be any need for aids introduced later, would be.

That's one way of doing it, and not very accurate when flying over non-flat terrain, or when the angle is low (for far ranges, or the aircraft flies low). If I'm not mistaken the A-10A does have a better method though, it will point the radar for the radar altimeter along the gun barrel and use the radar for ranging.

Yes, I presume it's not very accurate, hence why I ask if it's modeled or not because it would make a great deal. Do you have any sources for this radar ranging stuff? I'm no A-10 expert (or any expert, for that matter), but it sounds rather improbable (the solution sounds rather imprecise given the width of the radar beam at the attack angle, not to mention the lack of precise low altitude indication for the pilot during those low level attacks).