Fight for Honor - A Folds of Honor Charity Event

Of course it doesn't. Same goes for being a rl fighter pilot :)

I remember this time that a friend of mine who does clerical office work scoffed at me about how we do or don't do certain things in a machine shop. She publicly embarrassed herself without even knowing it.

I remember this time that a friend of mine who does clerical office work scoffed at me about how we do or don't do certain things in a machine shop. She publicly embarrassed herself without even knowing it.

Lucky her. By the way I drive a Golf therefore I know how it performs in need for speed ;)

Let me make sure I have this right:

This is a CHARITY EVENT. It is a cause that I think most people here have no qualms with.

So, who cares what ruleset is established, why it was established, or what that means for your participation or lack thereof? It's a fun event that gets people to contribute to a good cause.

The thing could be a random plane assignment giving me a Spitfire against a JF-17, and I'm told I am not allowed to roll in the clockwise direction. So what??? That the restrictions are actually backed up by subject matter experts, which is often ignored in favor of DCS experience (:doh:) doesn't even matter that much.

Let me reiterate...

This. Is. A. Fun. Charity. Event.

That some of you who feel the need to win a trophy in everything (including internet arguing) have turned this discussion into anything but a back slapping congratulations on a great idea and excellent event is pathetic.

Also you mentioned in today's stream that you've gone up against Sungho and you uploaded that video on your channel. I did not see this video back in the days nor was I able to find it while searching now. I would gladly appreciate if you could post the link.

He didn't fly against Sungho, he flew WITH Sungho after he won the first FFH tournament. You can see it here:

EDIT:

Also, what Dino Might said. I actually took up a Spitfire this time, totally unpracticed due to my laser surgery. Went up against a Hornet. It was ridiculously fun, and I lost (it's bad enough being out of practice, but add the fixed gunsight and it didn't matter how many firing opportunities I got!) It's a friggin' charity event, it has its rules defined, and they are part of the challenge.

thank you

Of course it doesn't. Same goes for being a rl fighter pilot :)

Let's see:

-Watching Youtube Videos

-Playing Video Games

-No consequences

vs.

-Passing formal aptitude tests

-Formal academic training written by real instructors (not the internet)

-Formal flight training, where you if you fail enough and you're out (and it's easy to fail)

-Literally years to earn qualifications, and if you don't earn them, you're out

-Each syllabus is rigorous, taught by experts, accurate, and not a simulation

-Literally thousands of hours studying real tactics, real procedures, real techniques, in a vault with real information. Thousands of hours. Just to keep sharp even not when in a formal syllabus.

Now your comment that I'm replying to here has to be one of the most misguided ones I've seen on these forums. While being a RL fighter pilot has no bearing on being a video game expert, it does make somebody an expert on flying fighters in real life....which people here are claiming they want to simulate as much as possible in the game. Conversely, being a video game expert has no bearing on flying fighters IRL; unfortunately several in this thread think the gaming makes them know more about the real life procedures and culture (not talking about the unique DCS characteristics which the gamer knows much about) than the fighter pilots.

It is obvious that my input is not valued here. I am patient and I always keep my discussions civil. While I cannot speak for the other pilots, I will say that my time on the forums is done. I know you will say good riddance. That is fine. My time here is up. Thanks to the great members of this community who enjoy learning and talking about fighter jets and for those have given me great feedback.

If we meet, first round is on me.

Let's see:

 

 

 

It is obvious that my input is not valued here. I am patient and I always keep my discussions civil. While I cannot speak for the other pilots, I will say that my time on the forums is done. I know you will say good riddance. That is fine. My time here is up. Thanks to the great members of this community who enjoy learning and talking about fighter jets and for those have given me great feedback.

 

Sad to hear that.

And DCS Community lose a good source of knowledge and information because some dudes cant

distinguish real life to Video games.

What a shambles. Just looked through this thread, and frankly its embarrassing.

There is a very simple solution if you don't like the rules, leave.

Although as has been said, this is a charity event; so sit back, relax and have fun. Alienating the majority of our SME knowledge base isn't part of that.

So thank you, for ruining this for everyone. I hope you feel proud.

Let's see:

 

 

-Watching Youtube Videos

-Playing Video Games

-No consequences

 

 

 

vs.

 

 

-Passing formal aptitude tests

-Formal academic training written by real instructors (not the internet)

-Formal flight training, where you if you fail enough and you're out (and it's easy to fail)

-Literally years to earn qualifications, and if you don't earn them, you're out

-Each syllabus is rigorous, taught by experts, accurate, and not a simulation

-Literally thousands of hours studying real tactics, real procedures, real techniques, in a vault with real information. Thousands of hours. Just to keep sharp even not when in a formal syllabus.

 

 

Now your comment that I'm replying to here has to be one of the most misguided ones I've seen on these forums. While being a RL fighter pilot has no bearing on being a video game expert, it does make somebody an expert on flying fighters in real life....which people here are claiming they want to simulate as much as possible in the game. Conversely, being a video game expert has no bearing on flying fighters IRL; unfortunately several in this thread think the gaming makes them know more about the real life procedures and culture (not talking about the unique DCS characteristics which the gamer knows much about) than the fighter pilots.

 

 

It is obvious that my input is not valued here. I am patient and I always keep my discussions civil. While I cannot speak for the other pilots, I will say that my time on the forums is done. I know you will say good riddance. That is fine. My time here is up. Thanks to the great members of this community who enjoy learning and talking about fighter jets and for those have given me great feedback.

 

 

If we meet, first round is on me.

I think I made it very clear that I am not at all disputing Movers real life experience and skills. But as you said it yourself being a real life pilot has no bearing on being a video game expert.

Input from real life pilots is certainly a blessing when it comes to procedures and real life performance, but is not acurrate regarding the performance of aircraft in DCS. Just because you aim to simulate as much as possible doesn't mean you are able to depict it realistically.

I've gone up against real life pilots of different nations (believe me or not I don't mind) in DCS. Some of them were pretty decent, some of them were repeatedly making the most basic bfm mistakes. Having gone through real life fighter pilot training didn't make them competitive in DCS.

Worse than internet warriors are people who tell to dare not to question the claims of real life pilots regardless the matter. In my initial post I was explaining why G-Limits are not a

universal solution for balancing and why some people may find them misplaced and a reason to not participate. Furthermore I was pointing out that defending said G-Limits by saying "the F-18 doesn't have to be a rate fighter" is plain wrong. Go take part in FOH and go for the 1c against the M2000 and see yourself, or ask any of the top 10 participants if radius fighting in the 18 is an option against the Mirage.

You chose the easy way mate. Mover is a real life pilot therefore what he says regarding a Sim must be correct no matter what people with years of experience in same sim say. If you chose to opt out of conversations because someone is presenting contradictory views so be it.

What a shambles. Just looked through this thread, and frankly its embarrassing.

 

There is a very simple solution if you don't like the rules, leave.

 

Although as has been said, this is a charity event; so sit back, relax and have fun. Alienating the majority of our SME knowledge base isn't part of that.

 

So thank you, for ruining this for everyone. I hope you feel proud.

I did not like the rules. I left. Am I allowed to point out flaws of those rules to see them improved for the next event? Apparently not without being called ridiculous :thumbup:.

My god, this entire thread has gone full retard. I am reminded why i should keep my time invested on wikis limited.

Happy to chat live in discord for anyone truly curious about reality and aviation, or just reality at this point. A good friend of mine, an actuall in the flesh top gun grad who has faught 14s for those of you who only accept "arguments from (anecdotally appropriate) authoritys ", will be poking arround next month. Live conversations always seams to weed out the BS.

Mover, GB, ya certainly earned that 5 for effort. Great tournament regardless.

Have fun storming the castle.

Mover Snodgrass is an ace and also a living legend :

I think I made it very clear that I am not at all disputing Movers real life experience and skills. But as you said it yourself being a real life pilot has no bearing on being a video game expert.

 

Input from real life pilots is certainly a blessing when it comes to procedures and real life performance, but is not acurrate regarding the performance of aircraft in DCS. Just because you aim to simulate as much as possible doesn't mean you are able to depict it realistically. .

Am I allowed to point out flaws of those rules to see them improved for the next event? .

So what EXACTLY are you folks who are demanding the g-limits be changed asking for --- MORE "realism" or LESS "realism" in the rules?

If MORE realism, then I think the input of the currently-rated or recently-rated professionals of what the realistic rules of a tournament like this should be would certainly carry quite a bit of weight? Perhaps more weight than a cool story of something that someone once did. Once. Which to be clear, was "cheating", i.e., actually breaking the rules. Which actually provides support for having the rules along the proposed lines in the first place?

If LESS realism (based on your rejection of the perspectives of multiple real life professionals because their real life world views are not applicable in this gaming world), then why bring in ANY real life professional into this discussion at all? Snodgrass or otherwise? Just say you would prefer more arcade game-like parameters for whatever reasons, and be done with it. No need to dress it up by scouring the universe to find that one guy who (you THINK) supports your position (but really does not: you missed the forest for the trees on that one).

So are you asking for more realism or less realism?

Or are you really just asking for G-limits > 7.5G for the Tomcats and you really don't really give a rat's caboose whether this is more or less realistic: that's just the way you personally are comfortable flying and are pretty sure that with this restriction you won't be as hot as you think you are or want to be. (Narrator's Voice: "this was, in fact, it").

So are you asking for more realism or less realism?

Well you're falsely equating imposed g limits to realism.

I think it's safe to say that everybody here does want more realism and nobody that I've seen here is just looking for an exploit to win a tournament.

But again, we have to define what realism is and what kind of realism is more important. Realism of matching real life performance numbers? Dcs is already not even close on the Hornet. This is well understood in the community.

Or rather should realism of pilot behavior and flying be the focus? Paddle usage was very uncommon, okay cool, we won't pull paddle. 8g according to natops was NOT an over G, okay but DCS models the hornet not to follow the 7.5 FBW limit and spikes to 8.1 and 8.2G faster than a DCS pilot could react or even perceive due to slow HUD refresh rate. So are we asking DCS pilots to fly with unrealistically low pulls on the stick to keep from busting the limit?

Yes you can over G the real thing if you pull fast on the stick, but in DCS you can over G just holding a constant stick position (not even maximum stick travel).

It's just a huge nerf to Hornet pilots who are trying to do slow smooth pulls and still busting limits. I'll be proven wrong today if any hornet pilots make it to even top 8. Somebody prove me wrong and show me it can be done.

Show me how to as Mover says, "Fly better." :megalol::pilotfly::joystick:

https://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2006/05/10/Ex-Navy-pilot-forgets-landing-gear/31521147286337/

 

Not only that, but they claim that you have to lower the gear for landing too! Snodgrass knows better; he has over 4000 hours flying F-14s. It's pretty clear that all the procedures and "limitations" that come from the manufacturer and Navy are all BS, and the realistic procedure is to touch down with the gear up. Keep up the good fight maxsin! Maybe we'll teach these actual pilots how it really works.

 

Edit: To be clear, this isn't meant to reflect badly on Snodgrass. People make mistakes, and sometimes the situation leads to something out of the ordinary. My point with this is to highlight that a one-off situation doesn't become the rule just because it happened. So, quoting that as evidence to dismiss multiple, qualified individuals, and official resources, is foolish.

Foolish is your example: the mistake that Snodgrass made with an F86 after 6 years he was retired means nothing. Not to forgot he landed on a carrier night and day, during storms with the deck going up and down 30 plus feet.

The point is this:

This is realism, "smoked cigarettes", just like over G and full flaps, were real. There was no black box to see if the pilot made over G. So, if you want realism in a fight against F14, you must accept all this. F14, unfortunately, was dismissed 15 years ago, and almost all the F14 were destroyed to avoid iranian can have spare parts. I don't want to judge what was wrong and what was right but that was and a tournament with F14 in 2020 is totally unrealistic. What the simulation could bring us, for example, is a 1990 F14 vs a 2020 F16 and so on. But the 1990 F14 with a pilot like, Snodgrass or Satrapa or Chierici or Okie or many others, means over G and full flaps.

And i also must say that the real pilots, who never flown an F14, that are writing here are not in the condition to say different things from what real F14 pilots said. I'm referring not only to Snograss but also to Okie, Chierici, Satrapa and there are many others for sure.

F-14 pilot on stream just said he wouldn't pull 12g in his tomcat. Lol :P

F-14 pilot on stream just said he wouldn't pull 12g in his tomcat. Lol :P

My suspicion is that many don't realize how exhausting/unpleasant it is to pull 6g, let alone 9g, or 12g.

My suspicion is that many don't realize how exhausting/unpleasant it is to pull 6g, let alone 9g, or 12g.

Oh come on!! 9g's is a blast and you get a cute little pin if you don't pass out! I guess there's a reason you step out and feel like you've hit the gym for 8 hours straight after a 30 min yeehaw flight.

Congratulations to ACE (Sung Ho). Great job by Trigger. Amazing fights and a lot of fun to watch. We're still tallying it up, but I think we raised over $10,000 for a very worthy cause. That pays for two educational scholarships for children of fallen service members.

 

And a Hornet won, btw. ������

Well done.

Big congrats to ACE (Sung Ho.

:pilotfly:

Furthermore I was pointing out that defending said G-Limits by saying "the F-18 doesn't have to be a rate fighter" is plain wrong. Go take part in FOH and go for the 1c against the M2000 and see yourself, or ask any of the top 10 participants if radius fighting in the 18 is an option against the Mirage.

.

:smilewink:

F

Best pilot won today :)

What a pleisure to watch this tournaments finals live - congrats to the winner and all the other virtual fighter pilots.

Plus of course many, many thanks to the bunch of people that made this happen and special thanks to those real live pilots that contributed their free time to all of us. Nothing gets better than hearing and watching those who did and do this for a living. Many thanks for your service!

(And please just ignore those arm chair warriors that seem to know everything better than the real professionals - you'll find them all over in the simulation community, be it sim racing or flight simulation etc. ...)

Congratulations to ACE (Sung Ho). Great job by Trigger. Amazing fights and a lot of fun to watch. We're still tallying it up, but I think we raised over $10,000 for a very worthy cause. That pays for two educational scholarships for children of fallen service members.

 

And a Hornet won, btw. ������

Wow $10.000 ...very very nice! Tks all you that expended your time to do this passible. Congrats to the champion and to the finalist guys! Great job! :beer: