[NO BUG]take off auto flaps - f18 - pitch up? - Page 8 - ED Forums
 


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Old 08-16-2019, 04:34 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Sierra99 View Post
It’s really not complicated. Doing an Auto flap takeoff is what causes the jet to pitchup.
Nope. It's not that easy. If you read the above posts you will see that there's big difference in pitch up with the flaps in auto, depending when and under which conditions you are trying to do that and this shouldn't be the case.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:45 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Sierra99 View Post
You forgot “no problem if FLAPS switch is set properly for takeoff” as directed.
Dude, that's not the point. It should mimic what the real jet would do in the same conditions. If you land with gear up, what happens, if you get to close flying in formation and get into the turbulence of another jet, how does it react. If you pull straight up and cut the throttle, and come to a stop does it fall backwards, or roll on its back or go into a spin?. If you come in to slow to land does the jet stall, at what speed?

If you were only able to do what the manual suggests it would be very boring. And you would never know the jets limits. No flying upside down, no knife edge, no flat spins, no high alpha attempts to hover a jet like a heli.

If in fact the real jet behaves with a violent pitch up when you take off with flaps in auto, i am OK with it. That's what i would want it to do. But i would put money on the fact that this is not how it would behave. I am pretty dam sure it would resist taking off, you would need to pull back on the stick to get it up or you would over speed on runway and blow a tire or something. Once you pulled back the auto flap system would react surely, by applying some flaps to react to the low speed and high AoA but once you got your speed up around 250 (my opinion) is they would then retract and trim the jet to 1G as they are programmed too. If the real f18 doesn't return to 1G trimmed flight like its programmed to in every other flight condition then i would say the real jet has a bug and it should be fixed. At least i would be happy ED got it right, just like HeatBlur programmed in many of the problems the f14 had, its awesome to know the same qurkes the real jet had are programmed into the Sim.

What you get out of being the devils advocate and resisting my attempt to question if ED got this right or not is beyond me.
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Old 08-16-2019, 04:51 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by PPPAnimal View Post
If in fact the real jet behaves with a violent pitch up when you take off with flaps in auto, i am OK with it. That's what i would want it to do. But i would put money on the fact that this is not how it would behave. I am pretty dam sure it would resist taking off, you would need to pull back on the stick to get it up or you would over speed on runway and blow a tire or something.
Do you try these things before you post? That's exactly what happens if you e.g. trim to +3 with the flaps in auto. At ~230kts the tires blow and she will definitely not rotate on her own.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:10 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Wizard_03 View Post
What is your trim setting, in each of these cases? I think the reason it pitches up is because your setting TO trim with AUTO. That demo pilot said he used only +3 on stabs. Way below TO trim, see lex’s last post.

I’ll bet anything thats the problem.
I don't think trim has anything to do with it.
I have tried trimming on ground say 10 secs of nose down trim, take off with flaps half and nothing, flys level, 1g. i have trimmed it in air so that it pitches up violently, then landed and took off only to have it fly level at 1g again. Once you take off, auto flaps seems to reset trims and flys the plane at 1g, so whats the deal when you take of while in auto flaps.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:15 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
Do you try these things before you post? That's exactly what happens if you e.g. trim to +3 with the flaps in auto. At ~230kts the tires blow and she will definitely not rotate on her own.
Do i test before i post, hmmmm, really. lol. Are you playing the same game dude? don't touch a thing, no trim adjustments, no T/O trim, just full after burner. it will take off by itself no blown tires and a speed of about 200.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:32 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Hog_No32 View Post
If you allow me to express my opinion on this: I‘d rather prefer the ED team to work on systems and features for those that want to fly the Hornet realistically and follow the correct procedures instead of modelling the behavior of the jet when not following the procedures. Unless time and resources permit...

Really no offense here, just my personal opinion
If you think about it, if they only modeled it to behave a certain way when you fly it by the book then you could fly it any way you like, with or without flaps, gear up or down and it would just do the same thing all the time, you have to program in bad things to happen if bad things are done. The question is just does this bad happen in the real jet.
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Old 08-16-2019, 05:52 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by PPPAnimal View Post
Are you playing the same game dude? don't touch a thing, no trim adjustments, no T/O trim, just full after burner. it will take off by itself no blown tires and a speed of about 200.
Did you actually read what I wrote? If you don't re-trim, it's your fault, not the planes fault!

Btw, the way you are 'testing' is definitely game like and doesn't provide any help in trouble shooting.

Last edited by bbrz; 08-16-2019 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:37 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
Did you actually read what I wrote? If you don't re-trim, it's your fault, not the planes fault!

Btw, the way you are 'testing' is definitely game like and doesn't provide any help in trouble shooting.
Did you even test re-trimming to see if that helps before posting. Seriously man, Trim has 0 effect.

ok, did lots of testing. learned a lot. Narrowed it down.

so on hot start missions, your sitting in parking with +12 trim on stab.

If you take off with or without flaps, this trim is then moved to +16 and once in the air it backs off.
too about +3 if your in auto flaps
and backs off to 0-1 if using flaps.

So that's the only factor? this stab trim of +3 after takeoff if your not using flaps. hmmmm.

so lets say you used flaps, and your trim is 0-1 in air now, flip flaps to full or to auto, no effect, your in auto flap mode already. This happens automatically at around 250. Like the manual says, but why does this no happen if your in auto already? yet flipping to flaps then back to auto then gets you from that +3 to a +0 trim on stab again but only if your below 250 so the flaps actually move, not just a software reset. odd.

so now lets land, conventional landing, no flaps, our stab trim will now set to only 6-7 on the ground. why not the 12 we had at first? whatever, so if you take off now, in auto flaps, no pitch up, trim returns to 0-1 @ 1g. Interesting.

You can take off and land all day now, no pitch up, if you don't use flaps to land. 6-7 stab on ground, 0-1 stab in air. Perfect.

Till we land with flaps, stab will set to 12 on ground again. and take off in auto will pitch up again with +3 stab trim in air.

So its the trim?

I have set that +12 stab trim on ground to 0, and still, it pitchs up constantly after take off with a trim of +3 on stab. Set it to +25 on take off and pitches up still. in my test, a bit less at stab trim of 2 and 1.6G. But still trim on ground does not seem to be the reason it pitches.

Conclusion: Your trim settings do not effect if it will pitch up or not. Only effect is if your last landing was conventional without flaps (no pitch on next take off) or with flaps (pitch up next take off no matter what trim).

Fix: Have auto trim setting do its job, trim to 1G no matter what, unless pilot trims aircraft after take off. Its not like you have a choice on the ground anyway. Auto flaps will just remove any trim adjustment you make anyway. Trim only effects your roll down the runway, once wheels leave ground, WOW its all in the computers hands. trim to 1G.

So i still feel this is a bug. Either one the F18 has that ED copied for realism, or a mistake by ED. Apparently no one knows.

Still want to tell me its my fault for not trimming? Do your home work before you talk. lol I thought we were fighting on the same side here. Looks like everyone is just looking for someone to yell at rather that figuring out whats going on with this.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:50 AM   #79
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ED does not consider this a bug

Thanks for the feedback and your conclusion

/closed
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