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Weapon Tests (a.k.a. you've committed fratricide...)


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Hi,

 

Not long ago I finally became a happy and proud owner of all 4 WWII aircraft in DCS. I started playing around and comparing their effectiveness and performance setting them up in identical scenarios one by one with gun tests being the obvious favourite..

 

I did a bit of research on the weapons these aircraft carried and the ammunition they used. Unfortunately, I was unable to find specific information about the ammo mixes simulated in DCS but I manged to put all other findings in a spreadsheet (calibre, rate of fire [no data on how the interrupter gear is affecting it though..], muzzle velocity, ammo count, number of guns [doh!] and some types of shell). I read that the German HE rounds were a couple of times more effective than those used by the Allied but I found it a bit tricky to put "a couple" into Excel so I decided to runs some in-game tests.

 

I set up a lone, friendly B-17G and shot it down a few times using all four aircraft one by one only to discover that... there was NO difference in the amount of time needed to bring the bomber down. The burst length was the same (1 - 2 seconds) no matter if I was using 6x .50cal on the Mustang or 2x131 & 1x MK108 on the Bf109.. I found it very confusing as I read articles saying that e.g. the 2x 131 & 2x 151/20 on the Focke-Wulf required roughly a 15 - 20 -second burst to shoot down the Fortress compared to the Bf's 3 - 4 seconds (thanks to the 30mm cannon).

 

Could anybody tell me if the B-17G's damage model is even simulated? Does anyone know if the WWII aircraft in DCS differ from one another when it comes to the "overall" firepower? Which one is considered the weakest and which strongest?

 

Thanks for reading!

Never say never, Baby!

 

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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The main issue here is that you've used the B17.. which (as you estimated) basically does not have a DM right now.

 

 

To be hoest, there is no point doing weapons-damage testing in DCS at the moment with any of the WW2 types until the detailed damage model for all aircraft is released. Who knows when that will be.

 

 

For the record, the very best way to test weapons is to fire a single round from a single gun at ther same location on a recieving aircraft every time, from the ground (not in the air).

Unfortunately, most sims do not have single fixed weapons of the air-to-air type that can be used for testing in this manner.

 

 

Slightly un-related rant on this general topic:

Almost every discussion on WW2 air-to-air weapons effectiveness in sims that I have read always seems to make far too many assumptions.

 

 

Case in point, In another sim, a few of us were able to collate very accurate informaiton about exactly how many rounds were being recorded as "hits" by the game. Even the very best pilots were only recording about 10% of their total rounds fired as hits, on average. "normal" pilots had hit %s between 1 and 2 % of total rounds fired.

In addition, in many cases, the highest volume of rounds hitting in even the most accruate single bursts was seldom above 30%.

 

 

Whe I read of people claiming that they '"poured" all of their rounds into a guy over a 2-second burst (when asking why an enemy was not shot down) I always recall that data garthering we did. Most people have no idea how often they're missing their target. Everyone seems to over-estimate their own accuracy when shooting, and underestimating how many rounds they've been hit by when reporting damage.

On YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/philstylenz

Storm of War WW2 server website: https://stormofwar.net/

 

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As Phil pointed out, with current very simplified, late '90s-standard damage modelling (I'm not exaggerating) in DCS, WWII weapon testing is a waste of time, especially against unfinished AI target plane with some placeholder damage features. For this reason I've been using DCS as a strictly civilian VFR and aerobatics simulator, where it shines.

 

I'd recommend doing the same until reworked DM comes, or focusing for now on modern planes, which have the "combat" part developed somewhat better.

i7 9700K @ stock speed, single GTX1070, 32 gigs of RAM, TH Warthog, MFG Crosswind, Win10.

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The main issue here is that you've used the B17.. which (as you estimated) basically does not have a DM right now.

 

 

To be hoest, there is no point doing weapons-damage testing in DCS at the moment with any of the WW2 types until the detailed damage model for all aircraft is released. Who knows when that will be.

 

 

For the record, the very best way to test weapons is to fire a single round from a single gun at ther same location on a recieving aircraft every time, from the ground (not in the air).

Unfortunately, most sims do not have single fixed weapons of the air-to-air type that can be used for testing in this manner.

 

 

Slightly un-related rant on this general topic:

Almost every discussion on WW2 air-to-air weapons effectiveness in sims that I have read always seems to make far too many assumptions.

 

 

Case in point, In another sim, a few of us were able to collate very accurate informaiton about exactly how many rounds were being recorded as "hits" by the game. Even the very best pilots were only recording about 10% of their total rounds fired as hits, on average. "normal" pilots had hit %s between 1 and 2 % of total rounds fired.

In addition, in many cases, the highest volume of rounds hitting in even the most accruate single bursts was seldom above 30%.

 

 

Whe I read of people claiming that they '"poured" all of their rounds into a guy over a 2-second burst (when asking why an enemy was not shot down) I always recall that data garthering we did. Most people have no idea how often they're missing their target. Everyone seems to over-estimate their own accuracy when shooting, and underestimating how many rounds they've been hit by when reporting damage.

Yep and even more misconceptions can follow. Most people overestimate the effectivness of high caliber weapons as a whole. They think that with 1 hit from a 20mm cannon should cripple their enemy, to turn him into a barely flyable piece of junk and with 2 or 3 more their target should just be obliterated. While in fact it depends on so many variables (ammo type, angle, velocity, part, structural integrity etc.) that it is very hard to predict wheather or not the target will be destroyed and how many shots you will need to do that.

 

Yes, average numbers exist, but they are treated as the max number of hits that a target can sustain, which creates threads such as "I've hit that plane 7 times and he was still flying, while an average number of shells needed is 5 to destroy the plane, this game is broken".

 

I realy hope we get a new and good, high fiddelity DM in DCS. Currently there is no point to compare anything. :(

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

My channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyAXX9rAX_Sqdc0IKJuv6dA

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