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Old 03-24-2020, 12:12 PM   #1
gary palmer
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Default Upgrade MOBO, CPU, RAM Advise Needed, Asus+AMD

Current system is:
**running w7/64 and using a MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Duke OC 11GB, 16GB RAM Kingston Hyper X Genesis-DDR3L-1600 on Asus Z87C MOBO, CPU is i7 4770, no overclocking, OS on an Intel SSD and DCS on dedicated Samsung 860Pro.

Want to upgrade MOBO, CPU, RAM....AMD CPU, 32GB RAM & ASUS MOBO are what I want.
Will be installed with W10/64bit Professional.

Particularly wanting advice about which MOBO. Needs to be Asus, durable, with emphasis on performance not on added hardware features which I would not use. For example I would not need to pay for a MOBO with high end onboard sound card. I use Asus's top end PCIe sound card in current PC which is new, as I get into lot of audiophile listening music. MOBO must have: lots of USB3.1 ports, 6 or more PCI-E slots, with as many PCI-E x16 as possible. At least one or two M2 slots as well needed.

Case is eATX large size so a eATX MOBO is the form factor I want. This factor will thin out the number of choices possible and my choice of ASUS. Am assuming the ROG range by Asus are the most gutsy performers? True/false?

Attached is a pic showing list of possible choices with eATX MOBO made by ASUS.

My understanding is AMD CPUs are the top end nowadays?? so would look for not the most expensive but something that is like top end but not the max priced product here.

Any experience opinions welcome...Gary
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:11 PM   #2
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Gary,

I think I need to clarify a little.

No Consumer Chipset will offer 6 PCIe slots that you could possibly use all together and worse, only 2 of them would be x16..and even worse, if you would use both they would degrade to x8 bandwidth.

I don't know what you need them for, sounds like you need them for audio processing or science stuff, in that case, the only real deal is an AMD Threadripper based PC because that is
the only platform that can really deliver what you ask for, MANY PCIe slots and they can be all physical x16 size, but even on those, 2 or 3 of the 6 ( likely 6 iirc ) will be x8 bandwidth when they are all in use.

Threadripper only has high priced boards, anywhere from 400-1k$ if you want Asus Zenith II Alpha Extreme or euqivalent from MSI or Gigabyte. The Asus Zenith II Extreme Alpha edition
is the only one I know that can really deliver 8x RAM @ 3600 totally filled
( thanks to the new 90amp power output ) but it also is one of the most expensive boards you can buy, along with a CPU that is not cheap either.

So if you tell us what you want to do with that PC and what cards you plan to stick into those slots we might find a cheaper alternative that fully complies with your targeted usage.

What cards and how many ?
How much RAM will you need total ?
How many cores will your CPU need ? ( Threadripper 3000 series has 24, 32 or 64 cores )
YOu will need a SERIOUS PSU ( WAY WAY above 1kW, better 2 PSU ) if you plan to plug in 3,4 or more power hungry PCIe cards along with a big fat CPU ) You can get by with 1kW PSU if you stick to 24 cores and 1 1080-2080ti. The more GPUs and the more cores will skyrocket power draw. This Asus Zenith Alpha and Zenith Alpha Extreme boards have TWO connectors for 2 PSU's for a reason !!!

If you dont mind spending 1k for the board, 1k for the CPU, not less than 400 for a PSU etc.. that is the right rig for you.

If you only need 1 GPU but want to plug in a few other low power draw cards like SAS-Raid, Audio cards, Network cards and 24cores only with 32GB a 1000w Premium PSU for 300-400$ will do the job as well...and you could also get a cheaper sTRX40 board as well. Though that Asus Zenith Alpha eXTREME IS DE FACTO THE alpha animal among those sTRX40 boards...and has the corresponding price tag.

So, tell us what you want to do with it or it can easily become a 5k+$ PC


Review Asus ROG Zenith II Extreme : https://www.guru3d.com/articles-page...-review,1.html

make sure you have a SSI-EEB compatible case, that is a special format of E-ATX with 1 screw offset to another place compared to "standard" E-ATX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

der 8auer building that board for a YOutuber, worth watching so you know what beast that is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4EUP2LgPSQ ( not the Alpha version, 70amp Power Stages only, Alpha has 16x 90ampere )
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Old 03-24-2020, 03:21 PM   #3
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...forgot to mention: FORGET B350 B450 Chipsets with that many PCIe wishes !!!!!!

NO DESKTOP CHIPSET CAN DELIVER THAT, BARE NONE!!!!!!

Only one of those, depending on hard you want to push it. If you insist on Asus

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/AM...form-Products/ <---limit choices by clicking sTRX40 after opening
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Old 03-26-2020, 06:28 AM   #4
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Thx for info Bitmaster. Looks like I need to clarify my needs a bit better.

I find the sheer quantity of hardware options a tad overwhelming. Many combinations and many products. I do lack good info about the latest performance hardware components. Current PC put together in 2013.

With new MOBO, CPU & RAM the following are my considerations/needs and things I do not want too.

* Will install W10-64bit Pro on Samsung SSD 2.5” SATA for OS. Not M2 SSD. But want board that is capable of using 2x M2 as I will probably go to this in future.

* Will keep my current PC case as is very large and easy to get into. Is a Thermaltake ArmorTT eATX case and do not want $ of another case. Purchased case 2010 and assume it is not a SSI-EEB compatible case. So want eATX board not needing a SSI-EEB compatible case.

* Do not want a dual PSU setup. So board will need to work fine with 1000W PSU I already have with good headroom. Current PSU is a Coolmaster Silent Pro M2 1000W and have a new Seasonic 1000W put away.

*Attached pic showing components I will install into the PCIe slots. I have a firewire card at very top above GPU (very small and hard to see), under that my GPU which is only thing requiring a 16x PCIe slot. Is a MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Duke OC 11GB. Below GPU is a USB3.0 card and at very bottom my Asus soundcard. 4 items total.

*With MOBO I buy I need all of these to go into it but 2nd PCIe 16x needs to be unused so as not to suck bandwidth from the main one needed by the GPU. That means I would need 5x PCI ports total. If that is not possible, will just use the MOBO USB3.1 ports (want as many as is possible) and discard the current USB 3.0 PCI card.

*Want to install 32GB of RAM, but into a MOBO that at a future date will accommodate 64GB of RAM or more.

*Would want a AMD Threadripper based CPU but have no idea about which one? I assume the more cores the greater the $. Maybe one of the Threadripper 3000 series mentioned.

*My budget for MOBO, CPU and RAM is $1500 US dollars max. If necessary I can go a little higher. Am looking for good value for my $. Usually I go for what was the top of the range 12 to 18 months ago as PC products can fall a lot in price when they fall from being the latest and greatest. With Corona virus induced economic recession coming prices will fall even further. About 2 months from now will be a good time to buy. Once I have a specific MOBO and CPU will search/wait for a good deal.

*Would like to stick with ASUS hardware as I find their build quality/durability excellent.

Thanks for your help Bitmaster…it will greatly reduce the time it takes for me to decide what to buy…Gary
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Old 03-26-2020, 08:14 AM   #5
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A Threadripper is maybe not what you then need and want to pay for imho.

I would then go with a 12 or 16 core AMD Ryzen, 3900 or 3950 that is, plug in 32GB DDR4-3600
and that is all you need.

If you insist to have the 2nd PCIe16x at full bandwidth there is no way around a Threadripper or Intel X299 system with a much higher price tag. In times of PCIev4 and new cards all supporting this likely from Nvidia too, there is right now no need to just buy into Workstation boards for this reason alone.

The thing with RAM is, you really want FAST RAM..and it is not advised, likely impossible, to add another 32GB 3600 in a year and get them to work. It may work but higher chances are they wont. If you then need 64GB, sell the 32 and buy a matched kit of 64.

Asus has nice boards too but I would not pick one from Asus for X570, if, then take from the top - Asus ROG Hero or Formula, add a 3900 or 3950 CPU and plug in 32GB 3600MHz and you have a solid performer for years to come. Likely you can upgrade the CPU next year with the same board.

I would pick a Gigabyte top tier board, they have excellent VRM and very good RAM support.

Gigabyte Aorus Master, Ultra or Extreme. 3x PCIex16 slots, plenty USB, you wont need that USB card. You can add 1 (Sound)card in the bottom slot. The Firewaire is a bit stupid, you need this ?

Threadripper has more slots, but the price !
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Old 03-26-2020, 09:20 AM   #6
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I just checked Threadripper prices in AUS...Forget that idea !!!!!

The cheapest one, 24 cores is 2.649 AUS$
No board below 750$ for the cheapest ones

The 3900 Ryzen 12-core is the only one that could possibly fit the idea and not stretch the budget too far.
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Old 03-27-2020, 08:43 AM   #7
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Threadripper CPU are impressive but prices are just over the moon for me. I could build a gutsy enough PC for just the price of the basic Threadripper.

Have been thinking on what to get. One possible combo might be: https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-3900x
https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRESTIGE-X570-CREATION
Do u think this pairing would work - seems to meet many of my need: eATX, 5x PCI/e ports, lots of USB ports, 6SATA ports, 2xM2
My only experience with MSI is with MSI GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Duke OC 11GB
which I have been happy with. What do you think of MSI MOBOs?

The other possibility is the same CPU but with: https://www.asus.com/au/Motherboards...pecifications/ this MOBO is standard ATX but like the idea of 8x SATA, also 5x PCI/e ports and generous USB ports. This board is also quite a bit cheaper than the MSI.

I looked at the Gigabyte suggestions but none had sufficient PCI/e ports.

The CPU is known to run hot though is not recommended to need water cooling. I am a retired electronics engineer; and just see water and electricity as a no no. I could always buy an upgrade fan/cooler.

The Firewire card is old technology but needs no software for card and at other end is a very expensive Focusrite audio interface for recording studio work. Too expensive to discard and great for someone like me who loves audiophile sound that sounds analogue.

I will leave the RAM for now and get the CPU, MOBO then think on what RAM? I have used Kingston for years and like ASUS find them durable and performing. Never had a failure. But am also not knowledgeable about recent RAM.

What RAM would you put with the rigs I am mentioning here? Meaning fast 3600 32GB RAM. I play single player mostly but am planning to go Multiplayer sometime. Is 32GB enough if one has a busy created mission or multiplayer? i put my page file on my old Samsung 850Pro set to 32GB.

Thanks…gArY.
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Old 03-27-2020, 02:32 PM   #8
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The MSI board looks great, it's got 2 Thunderbolt3 connectors and 10GB LAN which makes it futureproof once more USB-C and TB3 devices come to market and a 10GB LAN adapter is also nice to have onbaord. With SSD's EASILY outperforming a 1GB LAN adapter ( 112MB/sec) it is only a matter of time until mainstream will go 5 or 10GB LAN. For me a 10GB LAN would be a must have on my next board.

MSI..I only had 1 board in 20 years and it bricked, but also did Asus. Asus Gigabyte and MSI make the best boards you can buy and sometimes you just get the wrong box with a faulty board, from either one. If you like that board, get it. It has features Asus does not offer for X570 boards. Good pick imho.

I saw that Gigabyte only has 3 PCIe slots, yeah...a shame, but gamers usually dont need that many slots and thats maybe why they did it this way.

For AMD, get 3600MHz to get the full potential, 32GB is enough for the foreseeable future and it will be very pricey and hard to find 64GB at 3600MHz with support for the motherboard.
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Old 03-28-2020, 01:39 AM   #9
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Thanks Bitmaster. Have purchased the: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRESTIGE-X570-CREATION and down track will buy the https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu/amd-ryzen-9-3900x to go with it.

With RAM 32GB, 3600MHz is available as either 4x 8GB or 2x 16GB and am wondering are they any advantages/disadvantages as to which configuration? 2x 16GB may have the advantage of more air space in/around the RAM strips so is cooler...can radiate heat off better.
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Old 03-28-2020, 10:46 AM   #10
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Buy the one that has the lower CL values.

They could differ a little in speed as the 16GB ones could be "new" dies that could get to 16GB with single rank but I doubt they reached 3600 yet on those, I assume the 2x16GB is a dual rank so both are optimal. 2 sticks overclock better, that would be my tendency to buy the 16GB modules. If they dont XMP, send them back.
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