HOTAS suggestions

Hi folks! I gotta admit, this F-16C module they're working on has me more excited for DCS in a long time. I was an avid Falcon 4.0 pilot back in the day, back when the Cougar HOTAS came out. I had a huuuuuuge desire for one of those but never got one - mostly due to the cost.

Now we have this module coming out and I want to get a HOTAS. Here's the problem.

I don't like rudder pedals.

lol If I did, I'd probably save up for the Warthog HOTAS and get some pedals, but I've grown to love the twist rudder. It's so much more convenient and takes up a lot less space.

To that end, it looks like my only real option is the Logitech X56 HOTAS. The few reviews I can find about it say that it's lacking in build quality - and I want something that's durable.

So, do you folks know of any boutique builders of HOTAS or something similar that has a rotational axis built in?

Any input is helpful!

:joystick:

Hi folks! I gotta admit, this F-16C module they're working on has me more excited for DCS in a long time. I was an avid Falcon 4.0 pilot back in the day, back when the Cougar HOTAS came out. I had a huuuuuuge desire for one of those but never got one - mostly due to the cost.

 

Now we have this module coming out and I want to get a HOTAS. Here's the problem.

 

I don't like rudder pedals.

 

lol If I did, I'd probably save up for the Warthog HOTAS and get some pedals, but I've grown to love the twist rudder. It's so much more convenient and takes up a lot less space.

 

To that end, it looks like my only real option is the Logitech X56 HOTAS. The few reviews I can find about it say that it's lacking in build quality - and I want something that's durable.

 

So, do you folks know of any boutique builders of HOTAS or something similar that has a rotational axis built in?

 

Any input is helpful!

 

:joystick:

Doesn't the TM 1600M have twist rudder built in? You could match that up with a throttle of your choice. There are quite a few to choose from these days. In the INPUT and OUTPUT group, you'll see the subgroups like Virpil who offer throttles. TM sells them separately as well. And finally, the new kid on the block (not yet proven since they haven't shipped) is the winwing.cn with a full F18 option.

And yes, there are even the Cougar mods that you can buy to overall it with USB, and hall sensors.

Can a Cougar HOTAS be modded to include twist rudder functionality?

I am getting ready for the F-16 as well!

I decided that a Thrustmaster Warthog stick along with the TWCS throttle and T. Flight Rudder Pedals would be a good setup for the F-16.

Since you don't like rudder pedals, the TWCS could work for you because it has a paddle switch that could be used for the rudder axis.

Can a Cougar HOTAS be modded to include twist rudder functionality?

Not easily. I mean anything is possible with a CNC, and metal 3D printing. But I don't think that's what you're asking.

And I know you said you don't prefer foot rudders. I don't know if it's cost thing or a convenience thing, but MFGs, Slaws, etc. do make wonderful rudders.

Not easily. I mean anything is possible with a CNC, and metal 3D printing. But I don't think that's what you're asking.

 

And I know you said you don't prefer foot rudders. I don't know if it's cost thing or a convenience thing, but MFGs, Slaws, etc. do make wonderful rudders.

It's mostly a space issue. I have Corsair SP2500 2.1 speakers.

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Gaming-Headsets/Gaming-Audio-Series%E2%84%A2-SP2500-High-power-2-1-PC-Speaker-System/p/CA-SP211NA

The computer desk is against a wall and the sub takes up all the space beneath my desk. So there's nowhere for me to put rudder pedals.

pedals are hard to use at first. I operate heavy machinery, and that was the hardest part of the learning curve, being able to use the feet for precise work. it is a pain, at first. but getting use to it, i wouldnt have it any other way. same with the flight sim world. tried to find ways to avoid it at first, but wouldnt go back now that ive been doing it for awhile. gives you the ability to control multiple things at the same time.

on the operator side, its hard to be a completely competent operator trying to use your hands to track. same with the pilot side. if you can overcome that hurdle, you wont regret it later on. never used a twist stick but using your feet in unison with your hands is a skill you have to develop.

It's mostly a space issue. I have Corsair SP2500 2.1 speakers.

 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Gaming-Headsets/Gaming-Audio-Series%E2%84%A2-SP2500-High-power-2-1-PC-Speaker-System/p/CA-SP211NA

 

The computer desk is against a wall and the sub takes up all the space beneath my desk. So there's nowhere for me to put rudder pedals.

Have a look at TM new rudders. They are "combat/F16" style so it takes very little room.

It's mostly a space issue. I have Corsair SP2500 2.1 speakers.

 

https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Gaming-Headsets/Gaming-Audio-Series%E2%84%A2-SP2500-High-power-2-1-PC-Speaker-System/p/CA-SP211NA

 

The computer desk is against a wall and the sub takes up all the space beneath my desk. So there's nowhere for me to put rudder pedals.

I would seriously examine other options for your speaker setup. The output from a subwoofer does not require careful placement like other speakers. A bit of adjustment to your setup might well allow a set of pedals, which will make a night and day difference in your flight experience. IMHO. :)

pedals are hard to use at first. I operate heavy machinery, and that was the hardest part of the learning curve, being able to use the feet for precise work. it is a pain, at first. but getting use to it, i wouldnt have it any other way. same with the flight sim world. tried to find ways to avoid it at first, but wouldnt go back now that ive been doing it for awhile. gives you the ability to control multiple things at the same time.

 

on the operator side, its hard to be a completely competent operator trying to use your hands to track. same with the pilot side. if you can overcome that hurdle, you wont regret it later on. never used a twist stick but using your feet in unison with your hands is a skill you have to develop.

I drive a 6-speed manual, so utilizing my feet in conjunction with my hands and the like is not something I'm unfamiliar with. :)

It really is a space issue - I'm also deciding if I want to save up for a pit that I can use for both racing and simming - and it'd solve the desk/space issue. Too bad the damn things are so expensive.

VKBSim Gladiator has twist rudder. I use w/ the TM Warthog throttle. It's only $99 and is a very nice quality stick.

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb-sim-gladiator

I'd say the TM Warthog stick with TWCS Throttle (which has paddles for rudder) would be an option. and it has the port where if you later get the TM pedals you can plug it right in to the throttle.

HAT switches on the stick are important, I'd try to stick with a F-16 style stick if you can. (CH Fighter stick is another good option)

Yeah the T16K series ain't bad. The stick has a lot of precision, I don't like the stiff spring very much and it desperately needs another hat switch. Once I got the throttle tuned up (lubed, set screw adjusted) I love it. Agree the "slap paddle" would be way better for rudder control than twist grip, which on the T16K supposedly wears out really fast. I don't know that either one is all that durable but I think I'd pick it over the logitech. Both are way better than they should be for the price.

I don't know how people fly without pedals, only module I'd consider would be the F15 and even then cuz you can set the wind to 0. Wish you could do that in real life

You could go Virpil:

WarBRD base + Constellation DELTA Grip

This constellation was designed for Elite / Star Citizen / space sims. However I recommend it for two reasons: 1) it has the twist Z axis that you are looking for. 2) It also has a gazillion buttons that you can use to map to the F-16 module.

Something to think about anyways. Have fun.

Thrustmaster have a summer sale atm with the Warthog hotas for 353 euro,https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_ie/hotas-warthogtm.html. Unfortunately for me I bought the Warthog hotas on Amazon UK two days ago and it cost me ~420 euro and only spotted the sale just as I unpacked the box. Of course to make up for giving 70 euro more than I could have I went and bought the TPR Thrustmaster Pendular Rudder, https://shop.thrustmaster.com/en_ie/tpr-thrustmaster-pendular-rudder.html on sale for ~450 euro. Suckered a second time. I have the GT1 Evo cockpit from Sim-Labs in transit, coming next week. So I may as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb. Next hit is the Reverb to replace the CV1, that`s if it`s issues get sorted in the next batch, otherwise I`ll be waiting for the next VR release from Samsung, hopefully SOON.

There are a surprising number of options, I just wish the options fit what I was looking for. lol

EDIT: What about a Gladiator base with the MCG Pro grip? Is that a doable combination?

You could go Virpil:

WarBRD base + Constellation DELTA Grip

 

This constellation was designed for Elite / Star Citizen / space sims. However I recommend it for two reasons: 1) it has the twist Z axis that you are looking for. 2) It also has a gazillion buttons that you can use to map to the F-16 module.

 

Something to think about anyways. Have fun.

Well, that would take care of the stick portion - what about the throttle?

Throttle: I use a Thrustmaster Warthog throttle. The throttle itself is fine. Quite a few controls on it. Ability to use it with an afterburner detent or not (user adjustable, but requires tools so not on the fly). One weak point is a poor slew joystick. Hence many (including me) upgrade the slew joystick using an aftermarket joystick (requires opening up the throttle and voiding warranty, potentially also causing damage if you botch the mod up).

Virpil have their own throttle available last time I looked - version 2. I haven't seen one so can't really give useful feedback on it.

As to the quality and longevity of both, I don't know. There are some reports of problems with the TM's buttons, but it has been out a long time. But also reports of problems with the Virpil and that is a lot newer, so hardly encouraging. The TM weights a lot, but take stops it moving if no mounted on your desk... I don't think it tells you anything about the quality of it, or not.