Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

I'd be up to discussing Blue having ka50. Could they also get the su27?

 

TJ

 

 

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Please stop. Let's not make this like every other server. Keep the main fighters to their appropriate side.

Dear, Ciribob. Datalink is russian RWR, nothing less, nothing more. Disabling it is like disabling RWR on blue planes. Either bring it back or disable RWR on f15 and mirage for a fair trade. Numbers are already in blue side favor so why cripple integral part of Su27? No logic in that. Missiles are already degraded and over sensitive to countermeasures, radar half-broken, damage model strictly overrated, acceleration degraded by artificial drag and fuel waste sky high. What do we need next. Sling shots on wing pylons? Let me stress that again: Datalink is Sukhoi's RWR - Integral Part. Reduce number of Su27 slots but no fun if messing with under the hood switches. Bring DL back please.

Lastnight DL was available! I actually flew the su27 and it seemed to work fine. Hope it didn't get removed. If so I go blue when round goes official.

Give both teams all vehicles and then this server is truly no different than 104th. Keep the east vs west feel.

To remove units showing up on the Ka50 Abris the mission maker needs to set units as 'hidden', afaik doing this renders them invisible to GCI too.

My ideal BF setup would be:

:::CAP:::

Blue: F15(no AMRAAMs)/M2K/F5 // Red: Su27(DL, no Es)/MiG29S(R77)/Mig21(no Nukes ofc)

:::CAS:::

Blue: A10/Viggen // Red: Su25/T

:::HELIS:::

Blue: Huey/Gazelle // Red: Mi8/Ka50

:::RECON:::

Blue: F86 // Red: MiG15

:::TRANSPORT:::

Red/Blue: TF-51D

Pure Cold War setup, no visual mistakes. Restriction only on weapon of choice. No technology tweaking.

Cruical: EWR grid buildup must work for GCIs to have SA.

Most people would like this way. Pure and simple.

And that would be correct for mobile AD. Someone would have to mark them on the map as they are discovered.

Please stop. Let's not make this like every other server. Keep the main fighters to their appropriate side.

I'm pretty sure the cooperative play and lives system is what sets this server apart from others. If you think this is really an east v west server than you need to promote getting the mi8 back to red and getting rid of the Mirage and gazelle from red.

Bring something with a little more substance to the fight next time. Thanks.

TJ

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My ideal BF setup would be:

:::CAP:::

BLUE F15(no AMRAAMs)-M2K-F5 // RED Su27(DL, no Es)-MiG29S(R77)-Mig21

:::CAS:::

BLUE: A10-Viggen // RED: Su25/T

:::HELIS:::

Blue: Huey-Gazelle // RED: Ka50-Mi8

:::RECON:::

Blue: F86 // Red: MiG15

:::TRANSPORT:::

Red/Blue: TF-51D

 

Pure Cold War setup, no visual mistakes. How about that?

That's all awesome and the sides have been pretty close to that. The issue you run into, specific to CAS, is blue has no SEAD so they have to have the SU25. Unless both sides do not have the same objectives, airframe overlap is inevitable. Until we get more modules there is no way around it.

I like the idea of MK2 on one side and giving the Mig R77. That sounds cool.

I'm pretty sure the cooperative play and lives system is what sets this server apart from others. If you think this is really an east v west server than you need to promote getting the mi8 back to red and getting rid of the Mirage and gazelle from red.

 

Bring something with a little more substance to the fight next time. Thanks.

 

TJ

 

 

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Mi8 and Mirage were both exported heavily, IRAQ has Mirages and Nato countries have the Mi8, there's your substance.

Mi8 and Mirage were both exported heavily, IRAQ has Mirages and Nato countries have the Mi8, there's your substance.

Guys it's all well and great to base this on real life, but that really restricts options. You can always make things up and say the mirage is purely redfor. It really doesn't matter. People get way to hungup on whether it's real in real life or not.

Mi8 and Mirage were both exported heavily, IRAQ has Mirages and Nato countries have the Mi8, there's your substance.

The US has four su27s if you believe wiki... I'll take four slots in blue please.

TJ

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The US has four su27s if you believe wiki... I'll take four slots in blue please.

 

TJ

 

 

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No where did I state the server needs to be exactly like real life down to the units in each armies inventory. But you wanted substance in a "REALISTIC" manner and I gave you some, it's not wikipedia it's fact.

If you think this is really an east v west server than you need to promote getting the mi8 back to red and getting rid of the Mirage and gazelle from red.

 

If it wasn't influenced on two sides (NATO v Russia) then why aren't the main fighters already mixed?

Guys it's all well and great to base this on real life, but that really restricts options. You can always make things up and say the mirage is purely redfor. It really doesn't matter. People get way to hungup on whether it's real in real life or not.

You also have to consider gameplay. As it is now not being able to tell whether a Mirage spike is friendly or not is an annoyance, now imagine that with every fighter. F-5/Hog pilots would have to rely on a GCI to be on or unrealistically zoom their cameras to determine what ever side an aircraft is.

If it wasn't influenced on two sides (NATO v Russia) then why aren't the main fighters already mixed?

 

 

 

You also have to consider gameplay. As it is now not being able to tell whether a Mirage spike is friendly or not is an annoyance, now imagine that with every fighter. F-5/Hog pilots would have to rely on a GCI to be on or unrealistically zoom their cameras to determine what ever side an aircraft is.

I'm all for having the mirage on one side. My support in the having everything on both sides is limited to just CAS and rotor. I'd like to have fighters only on one side. I do like the option that was proposed earlier of the mirage only on blue and the 29 with the R77 being on red.

Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

If it wasn't influenced on two sides (NATO v Russia) then why aren't the main fighters already mixed?

Thanks for exactly making my point. Both have su25t. Both have hogs. Both have Huey's. both have gazelles. Both (agreed annoyingly) have Mirage.

Why aren't the fc3 fighters mixed up to?

TJ

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I'm all for having the mirage on one side. My support in the having everything on both sides is limited to just CAS and rotor. I'd like to have fighters only on one side. I do like the option that was proposed earlier of the mirage only on blue and the 29 with the R77 being on red.

I'd be up for trying it. What do you do with fuel?

TJ

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I'm just jumping in with my two cents here.

I'm more for having the aircraft selection more restricted per side than open.

It's not as if anyone on Blue is going to fly the Russian ASFs anyway, it'll just be a case of "Which side does this F-15 locking me belong to"

I'd be up for trying it. What do you do with fuel?

 

TJ

 

 

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What do you mean, fuel?

What do you mean, fuel?

I haven't played since Cribob made the last updates. I assume the Mirage is still fully fueled and the su27 empty.

TJ

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Why aren't the fc3 fighters mixed up to?

Because nobody except you wants it.

What also sets this server apart is not having every aircraft mixed.

The only reason we have so many assets mixed in now is because people cry balance which is dumb.

-snip-

I like the idea.

Had an issue with lives this afternoon. Sent a message through the website, but wanted to clarify as I wasn't sure my message made sense. Was flying F-15, lost two lives earlier in the day. Took off on 3rd life with a few minutes left before server reboot, and went go to land before reboot. Successfully landed, hit F10 and then returned life. Received message that my life was successfully returned. However when the server restarted, it said I used all 3 of my standard lives. Pretty sure something got messed up, because I know I successfully landed and returned life before server restart. It was about 45 seconds before restart, but it did appear successful. Thanks!

Server disconnects clients, but the clients don't recognize it's disconnected for about 45 seconds...so you were probably actually disconnected when you attempted to return your life.

I'd be up to discussing Blue having ka50. Could they also get the su27?

 

TJ

 

 

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I don't think anyone is advocating for mixing all of the airframes between both teams. I don't want that. I think it's too mixed already. Mirage should be on one side, A-10 should be on one side, not shared.

Limiting aircraft types to a team is not the only way to balance a mission.

Bring something with a little more substance to the fight next tim

Player feedback is substance, whether it aligns with your personal preference or not.

That's all awesome and the sides have been pretty close to that. The issue you run into, specific to CAS, is blue has no SEAD so they have to have the SU25. Unless both sides do not have the same objectives, airframe overlap is inevitable. Until we get more modules there is no way around it.

 

I like the idea of MK2 on one side and giving the Mig R77. That sounds cool.

The Viggen can SEAD if you have intel from other players providing coordinates. The Su25 being the free airframe, I feel it should be on both sides to get maximum server participation. I'm not sure how common it is, but I'm sure there are people out there that play on BF that only have the TF-51 and Su25.

Because nobody except you wants it.

What also sets this server apart is not having every aircraft mixed.

 

The only reason we have so many assets mixed in now is because people cry balance which is dumb.

Which is why it should be clarified what the goal of this mission is...emphasis on realism/East vs West coalitions or pure PvP balance. If it's the latter, then the current Mirage infestation is the ideal scenario for balance since everyone would be on an even playing field in fighters. Since I don't think that's the goal, the mission should be balanced in other ways than giving airframes to both teams...something like the availability of specific aircraft slots, their spawn locations, or putting them in a separate class of lives.

In any case, what needs to happen is people that play only one team need to stop talking in absolutes and declaring that the airframes they're using are completely useless in every way shape and form and requesting changes be made to suit their advantage. If you really want balance, request that the mission be made so that everyone can only fly one type of aircraft so no one has any excuses.

About the Shark issue, should we make a wishlist request to ED for a feature(server or ME setting) that disables the 'all seeing ABRIS on spawn'? Seems like a big balancing issue that would only get more annoying over time. Imagine MP servers getting more and more stable, but the small things like this bite us. :)

On a similar issue, I never thought the Huey door gunners had any place on blueflag. But neither do manpads hidden in forests... So what does this silly Mi8 pilot know. :)

Server disconnects clients, but the clients don't recognize it's disconnected for about 45 seconds...so you were probably actually disconnected when you attempted to return your life.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone is advocating for mixing all of the airframes between both teams. I don't want that. I think it's too mixed already. Mirage should be on one side, A-10 should be on one side, not shared.

 

Limiting aircraft types to a team is not the only way to balance a mission.

 

 

 

Player feedback is substance, whether it aligns with your personal preference or not.

 

 

 

The Viggen can SEAD if you have intel from other players providing coordinates. The Su25 being the free airframe, I feel it should be on both sides to get maximum server participation. I'm not sure how common it is, but I'm sure there are people out there that play on BF that only have the TF-51 and Su25.

 

 

 

Which is why it should be clarified what the goal of this mission is...emphasis on realism/East vs West coalitions or pure PvP balance. If it's the latter, then the current Mirage infestation is the ideal scenario for balance since everyone would be on an even playing field in fighters. Since I don't think that's the goal, the mission should be balanced in other ways than giving airframes to both teams...something like the availability of specific aircraft slots, their spawn locations, or putting them in a separate class of lives.

 

In any case, what needs to happen is people that play only one team need to stop talking in absolutes and declaring that the airframes they're using are completely useless in every way shape and form and requesting changes be made to suit their advantage. If you really want balance, request that the mission be made so that everyone can only fly one type of aircraft so no one has any excuses.

Who only plays on one team?

Who only plays on one team?

Normally me because Blue ends up stacked when I'm on ;)

Again, the reason you really can't put CAS and rotor on one side is because we don't have enough and the ones we have vary too much. Give me an A10C and I'd have an airfield closed by myself in 2 to 3 minutes last round with full defences and buildings. You can't put the SU25 on one side and the A10 on the other and have that be even because the frogfoot can't do it nearly that fast.

You can whine and say, change your tactics, but that doesn't work either. The A10C is just a better ground pounder in DCS than the SU25. Than on the other side, now blue doesn't have SEAD if the 25 is now only red. With missions that are the same on both sides, which I think work best for public servers, it's really hard to put CAS and rotor only on single sides.

If you then say, the 25 is fine on both sides, well ok, but now where do you draw the line. Where do you stop saying, but this one can do this and this one can't? It may be different when the 18 comes out, but until we get more modules it's really hard, especially for CAS and rotor, to only be single sided.