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Proposal for a new user interface


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Sent the message below to Wags, Norm (NineLine), and Scott (BigNewy). Curious what both new users and long-time players think of the idea.

 

 

 

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I would like to propose a new user interface for the main screen in DCS. One thing I found difficult to understand when I first started was, “where do I start?” It’s not currently obvious for new players. In response to this, I propose that the game’s main window be presented as if you are in a squadron building. The doors would have the following labels:

 

 

ADMIN

 

The ADMIN office would have a note on the “door” saying “New pilots check in here.” This office would encompass the current logbook function to allow pilots to check their logbook, create pilot profiles, and check their progress in game. There would also be an INDOC area within admin that either showed an introductory “how to” video, or better yet, a virtual tour of the interface (How do you learn the planes? How do you get going in a mission? How do you find things in game?). Once the pilot completes the indoc, he can press on to the rest of the game.

 

When creating a pilot in the ADMIN area, the player chooses a squadron for that pilot. The choice of squadron could affect the look of the squadron “building” (the interface). For instance, choosing a Navy or Marine squadron would make the interface look like it was on a carrier. Choosing an Expeditionary squadron could bring up a desert motif. To get even more detailed, squadron-specific patches and “memorabilia” could decorate the virtual building, giving the player a way to feel like the game is his/her own. If possible, even allow online virtual squadrons to create their own patches, signs and so on and decorate their own squadron how they wish!

 

 

TRAINING

 

Every squadron has a training flight/section. DCS should be no different. This office should give access to training missions (along with a training “syllabus” so the pilot knows how to progress) and possibly training videos to understand how the game works and how to become a better pilot. Military training usually consists of a “basic course” on how to FLY the aircraft, then a more advanced course on how to use the aircraft in combat, then finally how to work as a team to be more effective warfighters. Having a flow like this in the game would help make better players AND give a logical progression for a player to follow.

 

On a side note, there should be some motivation for the player to complete the training course. Some sort of in-game recognition, however minimal, would encourage players to complete all of the training missions. Perhaps in the pilot’s records there would be certificates of completion for various training courses?

 

 

OPERATIONS

 

Entering OPERATIONS would give you a choice of single- or multi-player. Choosing single-player would give access to what is currently available under “MISSIONS” in DCS. Choosing multi-player would take the player into the multiplayer lobby. There should also be a DEBRIEF area which allows a player to look at tracks from previous missions. A multiplayer debrief area allowing virtual squadrons to debrief (possibly with a link to TACVIEW, if players owned it) would be an excellent addition.

 

 

 

INTEL

 

Like in real life, the INTEL section provides an opportunity for pilots to study. The current ENCYCLOPEDIA would be available here. Also, links to the game manual as well as the manuals to all installed modules would be available here.

 

 

MISSION PLANNING

 

The MISSION PLANNING cell would be where you would find the mission editor.

 

 

MAINTENANCE

 

Game OPTIONS would be adjusted in the MAINTENANCE area.

 

 

HANGAR

 

In its current configuration, module management is split between the module manager at the top and the list of tiles at the bottom. Instead, the HANGAR would be where the player could look at (and “walk” around) their purchased aircraft as if in an actual hangar. Players could set and upload liveries, create custom loadouts (eliminating the need to learn mission planner to do so), and “window” shop for those modules they DON’T own (Since the 3D models are already in the game, why not give the player a chance to look at them up close and personal?) and provide a link to buy them.

 

 

I think this interface would make the game easier to understand and more visually appealing, especially for the new player.

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I'm so used to the current interface, that I'm afraid my opinion wouldn't be objective enough. :(

 

I'll just say that I like the current interface, I would only make very small adjustments, like allowing two rows of module icons instead of the current lateral scroll. The remaining Man-Hours I would prefer be dedicated to bug-fixing and improving 3D models of older AI units.

 

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Throwback to the nineties... though I don’t exactly remember which game / sim in my souvenirs had the same idea.

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Throwback to the nineties... though I don’t exactly remember which game / sim in my souvenirs had the same idea.

 

It reminded me when EF-2000 gave way to Rage's Eurofighter Typhoon .. what a shock was that :doh:

 

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Throwback to the nineties... though I don’t exactly remember which game / sim in my souvenirs had the same idea.

 

I completely concur and I'll add that I always found those interfaces to be clunky and felt like they were trying too hard to be clever.

 

I think there could certainly be some improvements to the UI in the way settings are organized (especially the ESC menu during play) and I think the myriad of paths that result in you getting into the cockpit from the main menu could be streamlined, but none of them are so terrible I'd consider them a priority over simulation development.

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I completely concur and I'll add that I always found those interfaces to be clunky and felt like they were trying too hard to be clever.

 

I think there could certainly be some improvements to the UI in the way settings are organized (especially the ESC menu during play) and I think the myriad of paths that result in you getting into the cockpit from the main menu could be streamlined, but none of them are so terrible I'd consider them a priority over simulation development.

 

Agree, please don't do the 90s click on an image to go somewhere idea. Clearly labelled options is the way to go.

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Agree , unnecessary fluff .

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Throwback to the nineties... though I don’t exactly remember which game / sim in my souvenirs had the same idea.

 

There were lots of games/sims with such menus and I actually liked it. But nevertheless having sleek GUIs where you can navigate quickly probably is the better way. Would be great to have both, but again this is extra work for some that want more immersion, but doesn't really add any functionality.

 

OTOH improving the GUI would be a great thing because it's far from being perfect. For example I'd really like to see the key mapping interface fill out the whole screen. It's sitting in the middle of the screen and somewhere around half the size of my 1920x1200 screen. Must be a tiny mouse cinema on 4k screens then. I've got several input devices attached and can only see three of them at the same time, so I constantly have to scroll sideways. Wouldn't be necessary if the menu just would fill the whole screen.

dcsdashie-hb-ed.jpg

 

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Oh, mid 1990s Microprose…

Those were wonderful for what they were, especially when they had some nice details and animations and the like. But for all the fun they were, the clear-cut menu is definitely more efficient and much, much clearer especially to new players.

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Might as well go full Wing Commander and have a bar where the LSO can tell you that you are the worst pilot he has ever seen! Was fun at the time but soon gets annoying when you just want to get going. The DCS UI works fine as is IMHO and just wouldn’t be on my to do list, plenty of other stuff!

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Sent the message below to Wags, Norm (NineLine), and Scott (BigNewy). Curious what both new users and long-time players think of the idea.

 

 

Very thoroughly fleshed out proposal, and does hearken back to 90's and earlier sims. With that being said, I'm not a fan of the idea even if ED didn't have other things on third plate. I prefer the self explanatory labels as they are rather than contrived names. The UI is just that, it's not a simulation. I'd expect it to look and feel like a UI.

 

The only change I would like to see is a setting to have the background wallpaper to randomly cycle thru the different aircraft, instead of seeing just one till I get tired of it& change it. Essentially like windows slide-show backgrounds

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Menu in the center is nice, but it gets ruined by the visual clutter of all those icons on the right. Come to think of it, if the icons could go, it would be pretty sleek. The icons are useless

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Modules: All of them

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Menu in the center is nice, but it gets ruined by the visual clutter of all those icons on the right. Come to think of it, if the icons could go, it would be pretty sleek. The icons are useless

 

Read the original thread reason for the icons.

 

IMHO I wouldn't take them but keep just in a module manager, but we are collectors and we like to see what we have, we do not have and as well show others them.

There would be an option to show and hide the module icons, like current "All", "Installed", "Owned" and "None".

 

Everyone could be happy that they can get clean menu or then collector menu.

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I don't feel like there is much reason for a change to the menu. The only thing I'd like to see is settings/module manager/etc moved from the icons on top back to where they used to be on the right.

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I don't feel like there is much reason for a change to the menu. The only thing I'd like to see is settings/module manager/etc moved from the icons on top back to where they used to be on the right.

 

The current main menu is a little mess because everything is shattered edges.

 

In my idea all is located in one menu from top to bottom, few changes in order and names.

And all is made to be usable with HOTAS. So no mouse or keyboard required to get flying as all main screens are HOTAS compatible.

 

So one can launch DCS in VR, and just use joystick to get flying while having VR HMD on, regardless does one have Oculus or not.

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The current main menu is a little mess because everything is shattered edges.

 

-snip-

 

So one can launch DCS in VR, and just use joystick to get flying while having VR HMD on, regardless does one have Oculus or not.

 

I disagree. Menu is fine. No need to reinvent the wheel. There are minor things I'd change, but nothing that I'd consider worth a single programmer-hour worth of time on ED's part to implement

 

I think making the menu useable by anything but the mouse would make it a mess. I fly VR exclusively, and never saw any issue.

 

 

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Albert Einstein

 

Things that are complex are not useful, things that are useful are simple - Mikhail Kalashnikov

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I think making the menu useable by anything but the mouse would make it a mess. I fly VR exclusively, and never saw any issue.[/Quote]

 

So you do not have a mouse nor keyboard in use at all....

 

I use Oculus hand controllers for everything in the menus, but that is it. I want away from those as well. I am waiting a hand tracking so one can click cockpit with finger tracking.

 

For years I have not used mouse or keyboard in DCS. Those are super unnatural.

 

But same time operating the menus should be in HOTAS principles, so that you do not need to take hands away from HOTAS even to operate main menu, and no requirements at all to bind anything extra to HOTAS than real HOTAS functions for the aircraf.

 

In my idea the menu becomes a own UI controller, so you bind your HOTAS to it and you can operate it 90% (but not things like mission editor) of it without taking hands away.

 

Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Albert Einstein

[/Quote]

 

What is my menu purpose. Simplest possible, but not simpler.

 

Having functions scattered around edges is bad usability. As well having multiple menus is bad usability. No good grouping is bad usability. As well not using a good proportion of screen space or using too much is bad usability.

 

The some of current menu problems are listed, and fixed.

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So you do not have a mouse nor keyboard in use at all....

 

I use Oculus hand controllers for everything in the menus, but that is it. I want away from those as well. I am waiting a hand tracking so one can click cockpit with finger tracking.

 

For years I have not used mouse or keyboard in DCS. Those are super unnatural.

 

But same time operating the menus should be in HOTAS principles, so that you do not need to take hands away from HOTAS even to operate main menu, and no requirements at all to bind anything extra to HOTAS than real HOTAS functions for the aircraf.

 

In my idea the menu becomes a own UI controller, so you bind your HOTAS to it and you can operate it 90% (but not things like mission editor) of it without taking hands away.

 

 

 

What is my menu purpose. Simplest possible, but not simpler.

 

Having functions scattered around edges is bad usability. As well having multiple menus is bad usability. No good grouping is bad usability. As well not using a good proportion of screen space or using too much is bad usability.

 

The some of current menu problems are listed, and fixed.

 

It sounds to me like you've fallen in love with your own idea to the point where you fail to see it's shortcomings. This isn't meant as a personal attack, just an observation which you can take or leave )shrug(

I tried vr controllers in Xplane, and it made me value EDs UI even more. Its UI is part of why I won't delve any further into Xplane

Nothing is more intuitive than the current set up. To add control bindings to navigate the UI adds complexity that benefits very few users. Call me crazy, my money is on the overwhelming majority of users gravitating to using a mouse instead of a hotas or vr controller

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Modules: All of them

System:

 

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Throwback to the nineties...

 

Next do we get "under construction" gifs on EA modules?

 

Under_construction_graphic.gif

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] DCS: The most expensive free game you'll ever play

 

 

 

Modules: All of them

System:

 

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You described the interface of Hornet 3.0 / Hornet Korea to a tee. here's a vid

 


Edited by Gladman

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It sounds to me like you've fallen in love with your own idea to the point where you fail to see it's shortcomings. This isn't meant as a personal attack, just an observation which you can take or leave )shrug(

 

Then bring up logic and instead attacks or moot points "bad" in that idea thread.

 

I tried vr controllers in Xplane, and it made me value EDs UI even more. Its UI is part of why I won't delve any further into Xplane

 

DCS is not Xplane.

 

Your argument fails. You can not take your bad experience from the Xplane and say that you don't want DCS menu get changed better because you got bad experience in Xplane.

 

Nothing is more intuitive than the current set up. To add control bindings to navigate the UI adds complexity that benefits very few users.

 

It benefits all users who has HOTAS. Every user who is using any joystick with one hat and anyways uses multipliers as well.

 

You would never need to use mouse to get quickly to flying, connected to multiplayer etc. Your joystick that is your main gaming device in DCS, is one option for your instrument as well for the main menu.

 

Want to quickly check the bindings?

Hit menu > settings > go through your HOTAS buttons to see what is there > Back to game.

All without single need to pick up a mouse, use keyboard or take any other controller than joystick.

 

Your joystick currently is 100% useless in any menus, other than checking what binding you had where in the configuration place.

 

These days every game is designed around from the main menu to the end to be used with the primary gaming device. And DCS is not to be flied with keyboard and mouse. The mouse and keyboard while are critical as a backup controllers for players who has just a joystick and limited other input options available, but it shouldn't be the requirement to handle the game basics.

 

Call me crazy, my money is on the overwhelming majority of users gravitating to using a mouse instead of a hotas or vr controller

 

Sorry, but every VR user out there dreams that they would be able to raise their hand and press buttons and flip switches in their virtual cockpit.

 

No more attaching any devices to your hands/fingers.

No sweaty gloves.

No special hand controllers.

No looking around mouse cursor locked to your center view.

No searching a mouse on lap or next to joystick/throttle and chasing the cursor.

 

Have you ever freed yourself from the mouse and keyboard in the DCS cockpit? That is huge immersion addition when you are not pointing a mouse cursor around cockpit to do something, or press buttons on keyboard.

 

The same thing is when you get away from the multipliers and unrealistic bindings in your HOTAS for functions that doesn't belong to there in the real aircraft. Meaning if you want to raise gear, you literally move your hand to the cockpit position where the lever is and you raise it.

Want to press the flaps positions, you move your hand to that position. Need to set the radar mode to something else, you literally move your hand there.

 

Immersion is far lower when you just do multiplier press on joystick or you point your mouse around.

 

The 90's style to do the game menus was to have a interesting style. It is following the glorious GUI era where all things were wanted to be put visible and be "semi-realistic" by using skeuomorph.

 

One famous for it is Microsoft BOB. That was Bill Gates wifes project, that luckily got cancelled.

 

364234254_MicrosoftBOB.png.debf172c4a5512e10bda86c5ddb17bbc.png

 

And guess who invented as well the infamous "Clipper"? You guessed...

 

Clipper.jpg.33329b2187e439f4114fe8a9e644b98d.jpg

 

Steve Jobs at Apple really liked this idea, why they called original trash can in Xerox Star as "clipboard" for copy-paste functions in their Lisa.

Eventually all that came to OS X and so on to iPhone OS as well.

 

Skeuomorph.jpg.bd988fb10ac73efd090964300b40e72e.jpg

 

But that was not just the only ones, as this thread is as well about the same design. Just like mentioned the old 90's games.

 

JALMM.jpg.c007ed3ac52215a4fbf3fdeb6d587db3.jpg

 

As well on the 80's games.

 

M1-Tank-Platoon-Main_Menu.jpg.e0e45b240677ab9df60e3cf6e0fb0a66.jpg

 

At the first hand all these skeuomorphic designs sounds good and interesting. Because they considered by many to be familiar for everyone. But in the first thing you do when you open the game, you are required to visually look through the whole screen that what is where and how it works. You move mouse over objects and it gets animated and it is fun in the first time as it is interactive. But it becomes slow and difficult as you are moving mouse and you need to go through different kind GUI's. There is no similarity.

 

I could design and make that kind any day easily. But it would be just bad, in different shape as the current DCS menu system. But at least it is better than the one that we all should know very well as well:

 

Lock-On_main_menu2.jpg.dbdb8458b4a82bc54fdeaf262113c768.jpg

 

Lock-On_main_menu.thumb.jpg.840c0e5e7882e9e6956240cdcdba933c.jpg

 

 

But what was before that? Something better...

 

6386-1-flanker-2-0.thumb.jpg.1a6491cd7e80c742882f1d62bc422744.jpg

 

And today we have something worse....

 

28779470_DCSmainmenu.thumb.jpg.c7be0ee72227483bd884569b721208c5.jpg

 

The situation has gone from good to terrible, to pretty.

Still required to use a mouse, keyboard in the era of the HOTAS setups.

 

For a long time only way to even operate radios was to use keyboard and function buttons. Then at least they became mouse clickable, but they really should have gone to the hat operational, so with 4-way or 8-way hats are used to operate radio menus. You go from pie to pie or at least up/down and back/forth.

 

And being able to go in the main menus and common windows with just HOTAS is nothing more than huge improvement. Something that would take a couple days from a good programmer to implement as everything in the game is really in the place.

 

It is simply a reorganization, and reimplementation of existing features in a new way.

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The current main menu is a little mess because everything is shattered edges.

 

In my idea all is located in one menu from top to bottom, few changes in order and names.

And all is made to be usable with HOTAS. So no mouse or keyboard required to get flying as all main screens are HOTAS compatible.

 

So one can launch DCS in VR, and just use joystick to get flying while having VR HMD on, regardless does one have Oculus or not.

I haven't switched over to VR yet, so I didn't really consider that angle. I suppose it makes a bit more sense in that case.

 

 

 

I don't mind having to use keys and mouse though, I spend a lot of time in the DCS Mission editor, so I'd probably be using those regardless.

 

 

I'm not against options for more menus, but I don't want to be pushed into a change as what we have now works for me.

Awaiting: DCS F-15C

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