MAC (Modern Air Combat) Discussion

June eh? About the same time as the PS5 and Xbox arrive.

Coincidence?

 

PS5 and XBSX arrive in November.

DCS and Likely MAC as well are moving to Vulkan, not DX12, which would remove the XBSX from Consideration anyway.

Does the MAC arrives in June ??

Thank you

Any...any new's about Mac ?

It is being worked on

 

Any...any new's about Mac ?

 

Kate Perederko - ED COO said that MAC is in the active development phase with "Mid term" classification.

 

She also explained that classification:

 

Mid Term - we have a firm list of tasks and we trust that it might be delivered in less than 9 months.

 

In short... it is coming.

This is OK-ish but how about what bissnes plan game it will be ?

Like War Thunder = Grindy, "free to play" prem acc needed for top tier

Like Ace Combat = Buy to play

Still not anwsered ?

I am certainly interested in this, but really all I want is more modern FC3 style aircraft. FC3 style F-18, F-16 and the like. I want the advanced flight model, just the simpler avionics like those found in the F-15C.

 

The idea that this is a separate game means it will likely lag behind with updates, if it gets any. Seems like ED would spread themselves thin and MAC would end up as is, with whatever bugs and content it came with.

 

And I don't really want simpler than FC3 level planes; I simply want more of them. Any other shortcomings of MAC are also shortcomings of DCS. Game engine related issues, server shortcomings and the like. Point being, I'd rather just have another FC type module. Otherwise it seems like ED would have to reinvent the wheel for both products.

 

 

Looking forward to seeing what information comes this year, but I think ED is making things more complicated than it should be by making an entirely separate product.

If Mac will be Similar this game Warthunder + Modern jet's Im insta preordering it

 

Just imagine this game with DCS world graphic ♥ :thumbup:

 

 

So we allready have June and still nothing :/

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but will it be possible to see modern jets, especially red ones, like Su-30 or MiG-29SMT flyable in MAC? Since it's not as detailed as DCS, I still entertain my hope for red multirole staff.

Grem Reapers interview to Simon, ED member about DCS.

 

WHAT??? :huh: (sorry)

 

I'm a bit confused now about what MAC will be.

 

Simon (who is Global Business Development Director @ED) claims @about 1:54:00 that MAC is not a stand alone product but we shall fly it in DCS and it will replace FC3, if I understood that correctly. Did I miss something big?

 

great interview btw. thanks a lot Simon and Grim Reapers! :thumbup:

Modern russian fighter in MAC?

 

Is there a possibility of a MAC level modern russian aircraft, since the chance of a full fidelity one has been outruled?

In the current DCS environment, to provide any sort of fight for the new generation of NATO modules in the sim, the Su-27SM is the absolute minimum. To even the field, an early Su-30MKI or a Su-27SM3 with R-77-1 (while that missile is quite modern, im sure that with the CFD methods used to make the AIM-120 models, its not impossible) is needed. The latter 2 have been used in Syria and would provide an excellent addition for the upcoming map. The bottom line is that the russian fighters in DCS (unlike years ago against an equally unmodern F-15) are no longer adequate for a game that labels itself as trying to recreate reality, here is why:

 

As far as air combat goes, there is little point to fly as redfor in this simulator at the moment, even with the weapons restricted to the 1990s, since that does not fix the avionics edge of a mid 2000s version of a fighter over a mid 80s one.

The multiplayer servers consist to 90% of F-16/JF vs F-18/F-14, which is not really immersive either. A big part of that is simply the unviability of the soviet FC3 aircraft compared to about 2 years ago.

 

The issue doesnt disappear in singleplayer, where you cannot fight the modern counterparts of mid 2000s F-16/18 (thus either having to restrict missiles or create an unchallenging turkey shoot that barely requires tactics). On top of that, the AI in their 80s soviet aircraft does not use anything remotely close to correct tactics to achieve their goal, even when set to excellent skill level. Although a part of that issue is that they have not been updated to defend the new missiles (and will thus under respect them and die to very long, turn signaling shots).

 

This will all get even worse with the Eurofighter and F-15E coming out. A MAC version of a modern flanker variant is absolutely necessairy to give these planes time frame accurate opposition.

 

A clear yes or no answer would help me personally in deciding if i want to spend money on the Syria map.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Max1mus

WHAT??? :huh: (sorry)

 

I'm a bit confused now about what MAC will be.

I think we're all confused here about what MAC will actually be and how it will work. Even Simon didn't sound too sure when he talked about MAC. :dunno:

 

I guess we will just have to wait untill official news that will clearify all those questions.

Is there a possibility of a MAC level modern russian aircraft, since the chance of a full fidelity one has been outruled?

In the current DCS environment, to provide any sort of fight for the new generation of NATO modules in the sim, the Su-27SM is the absolute minimum. To even the field, an early Su-30MKI or a Su-27SM3 with R-77-1 (while that missile is quite modern, im sure that with the CFD methods used to make the AIM-120 models, its not impossible) is needed. The latter 2 have been used in Syria and would provide an excellent addition for the upcoming map. The bottom line is that the russian fighters in DCS (unlike years ago against an equally unmodern F-15) are no longer adequate for a game that labels itself as trying to recreate reality, here is why:

 

As far as air combat goes, there is little point to fly as redfor in this simulator at the moment, even with the weapons restricted to the 1990s, since that does not fix the avionics edge of a mid 2000s version of a fighter over a mid 80s one.

The multiplayer servers consist to 90% of F-16/JF vs F-18/F-14, which is not really immersive either. A big part of that is simply the unviability of the soviet FC3 aircraft compared to about 2 years ago.

 

The issue doesnt disappear in singleplayer, where you cannot fight the modern counterparts of mid 2000s F-16/18 (thus either having to restrict missiles or create an unchallenging turkey shoot that barely requires tactics). On top of that, the AI in their 80s soviet aircraft does not use anything remotely close to correct tactics to achieve their goal, even when set to excellent skill level. Although a part of that issue is that they have not been updated to defend the new missiles (and will thus under respect them and die to very long, turn signaling shots).

 

This will all get even worse with the Eurofighter and F-15E coming out. A MAC version of a modern flanker variant is absolutely necessairy to give these planes time frame accurate opposition.

 

A clear yes or no answer would help me personally in deciding if i want to spend money on the Syria map.

 

If you ask me, that is highly unlikely, besides of course the existing versions of the Su-27/33/ Mig 29.

 

Also referring to the Interview.If they really want to target part of the Il-2 crowd with MAC, well good luck with that.

DCS has so many issues right now, VR performance, multiplayer netcode issues and lag , unit visual rendering , A.I. and their flight models, weather, amongst many others I really fail to see, what would be attractive (besides the "modern" setting) to that target crowd to make it able compete with Il-2.

 

But lets see.

 

 

Regards,

 

Snappy

It seems to me that ED doesn't really understand what it itself wants MAC to be. They tell that it's going to be a standalone product, than they talk about module for DCS. And since it's being developed so long, I can't really believe it's just about simplifying already existing planes to the FC3 level. It wouldn't take as much time.

Agreed. The conflicting reports accompanied by radio silence kind of tells me the developers are not very sure what MAC is supposed to be. Considering how long it has been in development (we are approaching two years) I also agree this is more than just FC3 planes being brought down in complexity.

 

Sure would be nice if we could get an official update on the progress from Wags or anyone else higher up on the food chain. Nobody seems to know what's going on.

In the latest interview that the Girmreapers did with ED it was confirmed that MAC aircraft would be able to fly in DCS. I also recommend hearing the rest of the interview to be up to date.

 

 

@1:53.02

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Evoman

I dont like how ED is focusing on the beginner friendlyness of MAC and entirely ignoring the fact that it will be the only way to have modern planes on the red side in DCS.

 

I have no clue how dynamic campaigns are going to work and be "balanced" as ED says they want them to be, when one side has avionics and missiles that were put into service 15, in most cases 20-25 years later than what the other has.

 

MAC must be used as a platform for the modules that are too difficult to make in full fidelity, yet absolutely necessairy additions for the simulator environment. Or else forget authentically recreating anything that has happened after the 90s and involved major powers (like Syria 2015) in DCS.

Edited August 10, 2020 by Max1mus

I dont like how ED is focusing on the beginner friendlyness of MAC and entirely ignoring the fact that it will be the only way to have modern planes on the red side in DCS.

 

I have no clue how dynamic campaigns are going to work and be "balanced" as ED says they want them to be, when one side has avionics and missiles that were put into service 15, in most cases 20-25 years later than what the other has.

 

MAC must be used as a platform for the modules that are too difficult to make in full fidelity, yet absolutely necessairy additions for the simulator environment. Or else forget authentically recreating anything that has happened after the 2000s and involved major powers (like Syria 2015) in DCS.

 

As much as it sucks to admit it. hes right, MAC is the only way we can get modernish redfor stuff.

 

but ED seems to have zero interest in customers that want red aircraft.

 

I mean they could have done 80s versions of the F-16 and F-18, so at least keep scenarios less frankenstein'd together. But they decided to not do that either.

but ED seems to have zero interest in customers that want red aircraft.

:doh: You know why they can't do them high fidelity, yet. Statements like that is either wrong from your part or ill intentioned :music_whistling:.

 

I mean they could have done 80s versions of the F-16 and F-18, so at least keep scenarios less frankenstein'd together. But they decided to not do that either.

I wish they had done, but no, they cannot, or not as their first and only option. It is the way it is, we have a 2008 F/A-18C, and a 2007 F-16C, and still people complain why we don't have the latest and most modern features and models (why not superHornet instead of C, why not F-22, why not F-35, ahem :music_whistling:), so just think for a second what the complains would be with only 80's hardcore models :doh: .

 

For every complainer about a thing, there's another complainer about the exact opposite, and that way it's impossible to make everybody happy. ED has to cope with that reality and I don't envy them for that whatsoever…

 

S!

:doh: ED has to cope with that reality and I don't envy them for that whatsoever…

 

S!

 

 

Well, the good news (for ED) is the lack of uncertainty.

 

 

 

They know, in their hearts, that no matter what they do there will be a crowd outside their offices with torches and pitchforks.

They know, in their hearts, that no matter what they do there will be a crowd outside their offices with torches and pitchforks.

:megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol: :megalol:

 

 

 

Nailed :D .

 

 

 

S!

I dont like how ED is focusing on the beginner friendlyness of MAC and entirely ignoring the fact that it will be the only way to have modern planes on the red side in DCS.

 

I like that MAC is like the Flaming Cliffs series, easy to pick up and go for it. It is not a real problem that you can't clickety click cockpit, but the real problem is that if the systems gets again at simple simulation mode like the "all-seeing" radars and such. Those systems needs to be simulated more complex manner in all (FC3 as in MAC) so it is on level of the full fidelity modules. It doesn't mean that you need to have all functions and such, just that the radar beam is modeled and detection ranges etc are there.

 

 

MAC must be used as a platform for the modules that are too difficult to make in full fidelity, yet absolutely necessairy additions for the simulator environment. Or else forget authentically recreating anything that has happened after the 90s and involved major powers (like Syria 2015) in DCS.

 

That I agree.

This is the possibility to add the Su-27M or Su-30 and such to the DCS. We could have little more features already in FC3 with still being able use with joypad and keyboard+mouse.

 

But the current trend really is problematic that we are stuck to heavily western world favoring attitude as "F-16 will sell, but Su-27 wouldn't". I would even expect to see a lot of AI operated Russian aircrafts, just so we can add them to the game as units. It would be at least the minimum them as west world needs at least its counterpart to be more joyful to fly. As F-15 against F-18 goes boring very quickly.

...MAC: it's for lower learning curves, and quicker to the action, and less about procedures and by the book.

 

Honestly, I am happy that ED changed their mind (again) and will not make a seperate/standalone product (nor with the WWII aircrafts and Normandy map which finally became "members" of DCSW modules in the past - at the beginning (on Kickstarter with Ilya) WWII were heralding as a standalone sim too)

,so hopefully they will bring some (already ingame) russian aircraft under FC4 (oops:MAC) like the Su-34, Su-24, Tu-22, MiG-31 etc... and /or make more new 3D AC models such as: Su-30, MiG-25, F-117, B-1B etc. and bringin' those as well into FC4...maybe with the completed F-4E external/internal 3D model as well.

 

What would still make sense: put F-14/16/18, Viggen, Harrier etc. also into FC4/MAC. (for those who like quicker/lower learning curves) :idea:

 

ps.: do not forget guys: a long time ago (in the "golden ages") the FC3 was the most popular/most sold module.

Edited August 11, 2020 by NRG-Vampire