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Old 03-06-2018, 04:06 AM   #1
Shrike88
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Default ECM Effectiveness against AI SAM

Greetings guys,

I posted in the main 2.5 open beta thread however since this is a much more active thread, I am hoping for some clarification, and since it involves the Harrier.. well here I am.

Really trying to shed some light on a subject I have combed over for hours on subreddits and ED forums and still have not really found any answers.

Are ECM pods even working in DCS against surface to air threats ? I have played, created missions watching the engagement ranges and ranges that a lock and am fired on from different SAMs as well as using the 410 pod on the SU-25T, as well as the pod on the AV-8B. Seems there is no difference between having the pod and it activated vs. having no pod. Am I just carting around dead weight by carrying these when running SEAD ?

Please anyone help me shed some light on this. Is it even coded on the game ? These pods have been around the Sim forever. Sad to see they do not work for me at all.

(I know they work against player controlled aircraft, that's not my question)
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Old 03-06-2018, 04:53 AM   #2
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A very complicated question. I dont think ECM works against Radar guided SAMs. When u turn on the ECM it like flashing a torch in darkness. Everyone can see where the torch is coming from. Its called Home on Jammer(HOJ). Secondly The Radar used on Sam systems are way too powerful as compared to what they have in Aircrafts.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:42 AM   #3
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From what i remember the ECM is manifested as a simple range modifier for the sams where;

No ECM = Launch range x 1
Ecm On = Launch range x0.85

Multiplier varies with ecm type, i think.

Last edited by Dugong; 03-06-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 03-06-2018, 07:59 AM   #4
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i tested it with the Av8s pod and found no difference at al vs an as8 or sa11. but thejn again i was looking more at locking speed than range
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Old 03-06-2018, 08:46 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drag80 View Post
A very complicated question. I dont think ECM works against Radar guided SAMs. When u turn on the ECM it like flashing a torch in darkness. Everyone can see where the torch is coming from. Its called Home on Jammer(HOJ). Secondly The Radar used on Sam systems are way too powerful as compared to what they have in Aircrafts.


Lots of words and almost all horrible wrong.




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Old 03-06-2018, 08:48 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Haukka81 View Post
Lots of words and almost all horrible wrong.
Then you can help him by correcting the mistakes
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:26 AM   #7
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Default ECM Effectiveness against AI SAM

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Then you can help him by correcting the mistakes


Sure , but all have to do is read (not wikipedia) , in first gulf war jammers work really fine against heavy sam network. So in Kosovo etc..

But yes, in dcs modeling is (least now) simpple. Just affects range :/


Here is one good book to read https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-.../dp/1580530524

And FREE tech info: https://www.scribd.com/mobile/docume...-Fundamentals#

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Last edited by Haukka81; 03-06-2018 at 09:29 AM.
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Old 03-06-2018, 10:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haukka81 View Post
Sure , but all have to do is read (not wikipedia) , in first gulf war jammers work really fine against heavy sam network. So in Kosovo etc..

But yes, in dcs modeling is (least now) simpple. Just affects range :/


Here is one good book to read https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-.../dp/1580530524

And FREE tech info: https://www.scribd.com/mobile/docume...-Fundamentals#

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That wasnt correction at all. Lets discuss one by one.

Ok first thing. If a plane can HOJ, why cant a SAM Radar do so?

Stealth Air crafts keep their Radar and counter measures off in order not to be detected. Moment you turn on ECM you give away your location. Have you ever heard of a B 2 bomber flying with ECM on? or a F22 raptor?

A F-16 was short down by Russain SAM. The SAM operator just had approx idea of the Aircraft location. He fired two sams and turned on his Radar at last moments. When the pilot got missile warning it was already too late.

ECM of a fighter jet has 120 degrees coverage. What about the remaining 240 degrees? If the missile is coming from the remaining 240 Degrees ?

Are SAM Radars not more powerful than what we have in Aircrafts? If an aircraft can burn through an ECM at the specific distance, why cant sam Radar have a burn in distance?
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:04 AM   #9
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I guess this is a really complicated topic. thousands of pages to be read. Cant comment any further.
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Old 03-06-2018, 11:41 AM   #10
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Stealth Air crafts keep their Radar and counter measures off in order not to be detected. Moment you turn on ECM you give away your location. Have you ever heard of a B 2 bomber flying with ECM on? or a F22 raptor?
If my limited knowledge serves me right the above is for noise jamming, the only ECM we have in DCS AFAIK. Guys with superior knowledge correct me if I'm wrong but there is a lot of other ways to use ECM that would not immediately reveal the jamming aircraft position.
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